voter fraud

[pucho812]

Well it's the  California primaries today. Although I am out of town I was able to cast my vote in advance.

What sparked this today was an associate of mine admitted the following: His wife did not receive any info prior  about voting nor was she on the list at the voting place but  She was able to vote anyway.  He went on to say how this is the norm and she always votes under such circumstances.

This is fraud.  If she didn't receive any information prior to voting day,  then either she is not registered to vote in California, or they have the wrong address on file.  Either of which would prevent her from voting because you should have to show up with the proper paerwork IIRC. Not sure about the paperwork as I usually am voting absentee which to the non americans  means I can't make it voting day so I can cast a vote by mail ahead of time.

Maybe some others  who have been here longer in california can shed some light on this?

 

[emrr]

I don't know the California system, but would assume some checks and balances if paperwork didnt match at the voting station.  What may prove the real issue is people with property in multiple states.  A guy in TN was discovered to have voted in TN, NC, and FL as he owned property in each.  State focused voter ID rules won't catch this. 

 

[john12ax7]

A bigger problem is the legitimately registered voters who were denied today or had their registration mysteriously changed. Know several people who this happened to today.

 

[pucho812]

A bigger problem is the legitimately registered voters who were denied today or had their registration mysteriously changed. Know several people who this happened to today.

Yes i know a few people who changed their address and confirmed the address change only to show up and have it be wrong in the system.

What scares me now is that you can register to vote when you get your drivers license. Add to that we currently allow non u.s. citizens to get a license here in california. I highly doubt the people at the DMV are checking to make sure all the citizenship stuff is in order when the register them to vote.

 

[Andy Peters]

What scares me now is that you can register to vote when you get your drivers license. Add to that we currently allow non u.s. citizens to get a license here in california.

The assertion that illegal immigrants are registering to vote and showing up at the polls is laughable beyond measure.

Seriously, do you believe that people whose primary instinct is to avoid all contact with any officials of any stripe are actually trying to vote?

The whole point of allowing people to register to vote while getting a driver's license (and, as we do here in Arizona, when people register a car or have other dealings with the DMV) is to make it easy for people to vote. This should not be controversial.

As for allowing non-US citizens to get a driver's license, remember the main reason for driver's licenses: they indicate that the holder has passed the examinations and proved that he or she is capable of operating a motor vehicle. So what's wrong with non-citizens proving that they know what they are doing when they get behind the wheel? All of the green card holders I know have valid driver's licenses issued by the states in which they live.

I highly doubt the people at the DMV are checking to make sure all the citizenship stuff is in order when they register them to vote.

And there's the rub -- the people at the DMV aren't trained to check citizenship, and they have no way of knowing whether documents presented to them are valid. Or, put simply: the DMV workers aren't Federal immigration agents, and their job isn't to enforce immigration law.

And again, since the DMV is an official state agency, what do you think the chance is of an undocumented person showing up there to take a driving test?

 

[Gustav]

registered to vote

Gustav

 

[pucho812]

And again, since the DMV is an official state agency, what do you think the chance is of an undocumented person showing up there to take a driving test?

Because California in it's infinite wisdom decided that undocumented citizens(illegals) can get a california drivers license.  California, unlike Arizona is not trying to chase them away, we want them out of the shadows as our governor, jerry brown, would say.  As like most states to get a drivers  license you have to have auto insurance at any level of coverage,  So the idea is  that if a car accident were to happen it would be with someone having insurance vs no insurance.   

You are correct the DMV is not immigration but considering they are registering people to vote at the DMV I think they can take a second or two longer and look up some basic info about a person.    Technically there are a lot of local and state government agencies that are not immigration but dammit if they helped in that department California would not have had some of the things that made national news be an issue. 

 

[living sounds]

Having to register to vote in the first place is a huge part of the problem. Here in Germany every person old enough to vote gets notified by mail when, where and how to vote.  There's even a code printed on the notification for your smartphone to quickly and easily request an absentee ballot.

Voter registration, voting on workdays and some other things seem to me to be designed to make it hard to vote, which translates into less votes from young, poor and minority voters (who all tend to vote more progressive than average)... Go figure.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Interesting.. back on the topic of voter fraud, it is generally considered statistically insignificant for most races,  but the maturing political management of elections, has reduced the contest down to a handful of swing states while the majority of other states are solidly red or blue (my vote doesn't matter because my fellow voters in MS generally vote as I would like).  ;D

You will notice that VP candidates are more likely to come from a swing state like OH or FL.

I believe some amount of voter fraud is tried and actually occurs, so we need to remain diligent in the regions of the country where races are very close and enough cheating could actually alter an outcome.

==========

One thing I hate about politics is how they rely upon the short attention span of citizens and inability to grasp multiple ideas at the same time, to distort and spin arguments.  The requests to improve voter documentation and security with picture IDs has been spun or twisted as trying to deny poor voters the ability to vote.

I have proposed an alternate solution. Allow unregistered voters to vote a provisional vote, after they provide a finger print and are photographed. If the election is close enough that these provisional votes need to be counted, they get vetted by both parties for validity.

Technology is getting good enough that the photo and facial recognition software should prevent multiple votes without too much effort. The finger print should make miscreants nervous as voter fraud is surely criminal. If the election is not contested these photos and finger prints could disappear into the cloud.

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I am pretty sure that americans would resist the German system of citizens having to register with local authorities (show me your papers  ) every time they move and change their street address.  I don't know if it is still that strict, but it was when I was over there in the past, talking to friends who worked/lived there.

We value our privacy but routinely carry photo ID for any number of services, but like I said, let everybody vote, and only photograph and vet unregistered voter for close elections where those marginal votes count. 

JR

PS: I have no idea what California is thinking. Their embrace of illegal immigrants may be practical, but I can't support sanctuary cities that ignore and even facilitate illegal behavior.

I have a brother and friends who live in CA. It is a beautiful place but looney tunes. I enjoy teasing my brother about it (he thinks like me, maybe it's genetic).  8) 

 

[pucho812]

JR

PS: I have no idea what California is thinking. Their embrace of illegal immigrants may be practical, but I can't support sanctuary cities that ignore and even facilitate illegal behavior.

I have a brother and friends who live in CA. It is a beautiful place but looney tunes. I enjoy teasing my brother about it (he thinks like me, maybe it's genetic).  8)

We are looney out here.

 

[living sounds]

I am pretty sure that americans would resist the German system of citizens having to register with local authorities (show me your papers  ) every time they move and change their street address.  I don't know if it is still that strict, but it was when I was over there in the past, talking to friends who worked/lived there.

Really doesn't matter in this day and age, after the Patriot act and thanks to the vast government security apperatus,  big data gathered by corporations and the omnipresence of digital cameras and smartphones, traditional continental Europe style ID looks rather quaint, doesn't it? 

When I moved recently changing my registration was just one on a long, long list of nuisances. But it practically guarantees I will be able to vote in the next election, with zero additional paperwork (apart from the act of going to a voting both or filling out an absentee ballot). The system works.