Want to buy a good vocal mic or capsule maybe DIY.... advice needed..

[pucho812]

MJ

I have much respect for your services but lets be real here. An ultra modded apex 460 is not a u-47 and it will never be. The reality of the situation is most people can't afford a real u-47.  So you get a mic on the inexpensive and add some upgrades to make it more pleasing to ones ear. Now it's better then a one of the best mics ever designed and manufactured? hardly. But a modded apex 460 is a good sounding mic. If you ask me the stock 460's are not that bad. It's all in one's taste.

Much like most people around here we question the methods to determine how one can subjectively say mic A is better then Mic B and why that is so.

read my lil tag line it sums up my thoughts on microphones...

 

[strangeandbouncy]

Hi,



  I am spoiled rotten for sexy mics. It is very easy to get sniffy about cheapo mics. I have had exceptional results with certain singers on quite bargain basement microphones. This is however, more of a reflection of the singer than anything else. Personally, I sound just like me on anything I care to put up. Just luck. That's not to say that I sound the same on each mic, oh no! I can exploit the various qualities of whatever mic I use. Other, far greater singers than I, can only ever use one particular mic. The singer I am working with, sounds amazing in the room, and awful on every mic we have tried, bar one. Serious sibilence, and outrageous resonant harmonics. A humble Beyer m160 sounds extraordinary on him everytime.

  Generally speaking, I find my u48 and my Sela(1950's Swedish film mic based on neumann m7/kk47, ac701) work on nearly everyone who walks through the door.  Same with everything m7/k47 based, Gefell m930, umt70, etc. Something like a c12, is more case specific, in my experience. If you have the readies, I'd go for a Gefell m930 or UMT70, if you want new and effective.

  If you want to mod for minimal outlay, APex 460 is a good way to go. Just change the tube to a real GE 5-star 6072, for instant improvement! lower the capsule polarising voltage, and wahay! Add a T14/1 from Haufe, get rid of cathode follower, follow Oliver's 251 mod circuit from Klaus's place, and baddabing! Best of all, add a C12 capsule from Tim Cambell, and smile, smile, smile . . . DOesn't work for all singers, but just the ticket sometimes. I love it for BV's, especially with a group round the mic. Think I'd get a Gefell first, though.


  If you only have 300 quid to spend, I'd get a Beyer m160, not a chinese condenser. ANd never have any sibilence problems to deal with.



    as I keep sayin', a good singer can sound amazing on an sm58 . . . . .



    Kindest regards,



        ANdyP

 

[gary o]

Thanks Andyp can tell me more about the tim cambell capsule please.....I have vintage T14 and C12 circuits,6072As also have Ela M250 electronics too, I love my little M260 but not for recording dont think id like M160 on my voice, Im a decent singer but I just hate the sound of a 58 on me sound like I got the flu and am singing thru a sock yuk!! probably upset a load of people now .....I seem to like crunch and detail in my voice usually prefer brighter mics...

Thanks.

 

[strangeandbouncy]

Tim's Capsule . . . . .


      Tim's capsule sounds amazing. I have not done a shootout with a genuine CK12, but I am pretty sure is more than close. I have never heard 2 c12's or 251's side by side, so I am going on impressions only. I am reasonably sure that they don't all sound the same! Tim's capsule says c12 through and through and through. His price is unbelievable too. He is an absolute Gent of the Highest Order, and is so incredibly knowledgeable and passionate. He is also unusually given to LISTENING to what people say about his capsule in the pursuit of perfection. I must have spent 20 international minutes on the phone to him! He sent me a capsule, and swapped it over when he had developed one that he preferred! And they are so incredibly beautifully made . . . .


  SO you don't like the sound of an sm58 on your vocal. Fair enough. Have you tried it on an original tube u47? - You might not like that either! Few people really like the recorded sound of their own voice. It never sounds right - no bone conduction, so nearly half what you hear through your head doesn't really exist outside your head. I always seek the opinion of someone else where my voice is concerned! Have you tried an sm58 with a popshield, rather than right up to your mouth? Much of the honking disappears. You still might not like it. It wouldn't ever be my first choice for anyone, but, like I say, SOME singers CAN sound amazing on an sm58! Rent a few classics and draw your own conclusions. I'd still try the m160 before dismissing it, if I were you. You might be surprised! A smooth gentle roll-off at the top end can easily be brightened, where an over-bright, fizzy, sibilant one is really much harder to deal with in the mix. You will ultimately only be able to tell under mix conditions in my experience. SIngers are often flattered into thinking that the brightest mic is best! I would far prefer to brighten than de-ess any day of the week.

  Over and out . . .



      ANdyP

 

[hitchhiker]

I just recently ripped the guts out of a 460 and used it's power supply.Dropped the voltage with a 170K (drop resistor didn't work correctly,see edit below)and the heater with 6.6r.  Used an M7 with Oliver Archut's modded UM92 circuit ptp outputting thru the Cinimag U47 transformer 6.5:1  CM2461  The mic is not too bad at all.

edit  I ended up taking the 170k out and regulating the power supply by changing out one of the 68v zener for a 30v and 24v in series. This gave a steady 122v at the mic.

Before gutting the Apex I tried the mods described on the net. Not that impressed. I think the mic is better with just removing the RFI caps on the transformer and replacing the cheesy lytic output cap with a decent coupling cap. To each his own I guess.

 

[rodabod]

If you only have 300 quid to spend, I'd get a Beyer m160, not a chinese condenser. ANd never have any sibilence problems to deal with.

This is a good point. Something like that or a Sennheiser MD441 would be nice.

In my opinion, the stock Apex 460 sounds horrid. That capsule in general doesn't really float my boat.

 

[gary o]

Its so hard to discribe a sound isnt it I know what I like for my own voice as i say I really hate a SM58 I have 57 got real cheap I got 2 beta 58s cheap I like them better, EV767 bit better, M69 better M500 bit better M88 better, M260 better, TGX60 better, SKM4031 better M700 oo lovely but not quite a Beta 87.. its my fav live mic thru my martin speakers in small ish venues its my living 3 nights a week for last 15 years unlike lots of people I want & need to hear every bit of my voice i eat the mic I like the proximty Im a bit naughty with my EQ, I have quite few friends that are respected in the music bizz who really know there stuff sound wise who come to gigs from time to time & they always come and tell me what  a great sound I have, I get audiance members grabbing the mic saying Im miming not being big headed but its about getting the levels right and not popping the mic as well as singing well its my job i love it and Im good at it and still learning.

After all that ramlbling I love my live sound but when it comes to recording none of those mics are up to scratch not big enough sound the ribbons & moving coils tho I like the tones lack the condensers detail tho , I would love to play around with a M160 tho i think it too wouldnt have the detail I want but if I can the chance I will defo try, as someone mentioned I prob wouldnt love the sound of the the U47....the Violet capsule I have was 500 pounds ish it should be pretty good and as I say I like it....just looking for other tones to play with, I borrowed the cheapy Okt 319 and quite liked it not as good as my violet but for the money wow.....a darker tone but one i liked....My C12 & Ela 250 electronics are moddified 1960s C28As regarding the bright sound my violet head on the C12 is a little too bright even for me the Ela is lovely maybe this is because the Violet capsule is meant to be like a U67 & I understand a real U67 mic has EQ compensation circuit built into the mic....tho i think my violet Vin67 lollipop is designed to be used on a flat amp.... I hear what your saying about mics being too bright....

Ive rambled further i hope it doesnt sound like Im being confrontational about your suggestions Im enjoying your views and thankyou all for all your thoughts

Im very interested in the Blue B6 would love to know about the peluso CEK12 I fear it wont be as good tho, I like to find out more about Tim Cambells C12 casule,would like to learn about the Lomo lollys too, I think my best bet is to spend as much as I can on best capsule or lolly I can find.

Ps just remembered got Audio Technica AT3300 hand held condenser that I read has AT4033 eletret capsule in it its a well made mic but I hate the sound of that too haha its prob great on instruments , I must sell it, put money towards my.....???

once again thankyou for your ideas

 

[gary o]

I cant find that much info about Tim Cambell capsules and how to get them ....found nothing negative tho, does he make the whole capsule I wonder ? I wonder how it fairs against the peluso and even the Blue B6....I think I have narrowed things down to these 3 I no which price id rather pay & dont want my pocet to play tricks on my ears to tell me cheapest sounds best......il drop Tim an Email for now...

 

[Rossi]

Dude, that's pretty hard to read without interpunction.

Tim Campbell:
http://www.timcampbell.dk/

 

[seavote]

stangeandbouncy  "tim campbell capsule"
the raw audio samples ive heard souns great. but this is an akg clone. your best bet would be to put it in an AKG414 clone.
i have a peluso CeK12 in my G7 build that im not crazy about. i know many people like them and only the machining is done in china but mine,in this application still has "that chinese bump" in the high end. i use the mic for acoustic guitar sometimes (small home studio) to record myself. but it doesnt work on the few male vocals ive recorded without some EQing.

 

[Svart]

Boiled down, what I was trying to say is that once you spend the money on the 460, the capsule, the tubes, the parts, time, etc. added up you could have 75 to 100% of the money on a mic like a used UMT70/71.  Those already have a PVC M7 in them you know..

Watch Ebay, I've seen a few go for <1K$ before..

 

[mushy]

Before gutting the Apex I tried the mods described on the net. Not that impressed. I think the mic is better with just removing the RFI caps on the transformer and replacing the cheesy lytic output cap with a decent coupling cap. To each his own I guess.

+1. I've been through the ringer on these. I've tried every mod on the web and then some. In the end, I used the Bulldog mod kit that was put together by Lucas/Oliver and a Dale M7. I now love this mic. Is it a U47? No. But it is a rediculously great mic.

http://www.compasspointstudios.com/bulldog/bulldog-tnc_upgrades.html

The moral of the story? Changing just the transformer isn't going change things much. Swapping out some passives isn't going to change much. Changing out the tube isn't going to change much. In the end, the only original parts on mine are the grill, body and ps (and the grill is the next thing to go).

In other words, the price of a 460 is a high price to pay for a donor body. 

 

[bernbrue]

Hi,
my recommendation:

http://www.musik-produktiv.de/hitec-audio-tube-fat-roehre.aspx

Formerly these mics were developed and produced in Germany, now probably in China or somewhere else.
Rock solid hardware (they are very heavy) and they sound extremely good. For my taste even much better than not that cheap T-Bone tube mics. They´ve got an ebay shop as well.
regards
Bernd

 

[rodabod]

Formerly these mics were developed and produced in Germany

I just mis-read that logo as something else...

 

[bernbrue]

 

[zebra50]

OMFG. Took me an age to see it, but that is slightly unfortunate.

 

[Rossi]

Took me a moment, too. But now I have a hard time reading it any other way. 

It does look a lot like a t.bone sc700, though. I really can't imagine they were built in Germany once. A German made capsule costs more than the entire mic. I doubt you could produce a quality tube mic in Germany that retails for significantly less than say 1500 euros.

 

[hitchhiker]

I ended up modding the Apex power supply by replacing one of the 68v zeners with a 30v and 24v in series.
(results as 68v + 30v + 24 in series) Steady 122v when loaded with the UM92 mic circuit.

Mic sounds even better with full voltage.

 

[gary o]

Ha I did the double take too on that mic, ha.....Emailed Tim but no reply yet ..........extra gig came in for more so i have ssome extra money to throw at capsule/ lollipop unless I cos across better option

been reading scraps of info about the peluso Vs Tim cambell, the Peluso is still just a chinise capsule including so called chinise frequency response bump........

thanks

 

[Mark Burnley]

including so called chinise frequency response bump........

...which can of course be flattened out with some British EQ...



Mark