Warm Audio WA-67 - Teardown

[Tim Campbell]

That would be another thread hahaha.

 

[Briain]

He has made quite a few bloopers there, and mixes up things. He doesn't claim to be a mic expert, so i guess it's ok. Your KMS is not less exotic or worse by any means than TLM103.

The difference in price is due to the fact the Neumann pretty much invented what we today regard as condenser studio microphone (not exactly but bear with me). 99% of the people picture a Neumann in their heads once studio is mentioned. You pay for german manufacturing, QC, taxes, hourly rate, and R&D both historical and future. Neumann is not made by low wage immigrants, or OEM but by well educated professionals. You pay for the badge as well. Others more or less make stuff based on what Neumann or similar companies had to come up with in the past. Røde is based on automated process, and pretty much one design Doug Ford came up with. I love Røde, don't get me wrong, but it's a different approach. Not much R&D going on.

All points noted, and indeed, totally agreed with.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but don't worry; I've no plans on ditching my KMS 105 just because it doesn't have laser trimmed resistors on a very fancy PC board (FR4 is just fine, for me). I was using a Lewitt MTP 840 DM (which sounded pretty good when using the internal preamp, but with it just set to 0 dB gain; for what, see the 'PS' bit at the end) but even gentle handling noise was really quite significant. Also, when you tap the body of a KMS 105 it makes a very feint (and short duration) dunk, but when you tap the body of the Lewitt 840 it sounded like a 4lb hammer being dropped onto a kettle drum in a mausoleum. I absolutely love the stunningly nice engineering quality of the KMS 105 (as well as the sound, of course) and I also really like the plosive filter arrangement; you'd have to be a complete goon to 'pop' it (I am, and yet I yet haven't).

All the best,
Briain

PS I'm mostly using the KMS 105 into a SPL Track One feeding into a [ham] radio transmitter (I was tempted to post an entertaining pic of the setup, but I really don't want to upset folks by even further side-tracking this thread off topic; particularly so with it being only my second ever post).

 

[RuudNL]

The problems I have had with the KMS105, is that the PCB broke after a microphone fell.
Always on the same place! Extreme small traces.
What is the idea behind all the 'S' curves near the XLR insert?
Shock isolation perhaps? Well, it seems to do more harm than good...

 

[ubxf]

The problems I have had with the TLM105, is that the PCB broke after a microphone fell.
Always on the same place! Extreme small traces.
What is the idea behind all the 'S' curves near the XLR insert?
Shock isolation perhaps? Well, it seems to do more harm than good...

Is it the KMS105 or the TLM103

 

[kingkorg]

The problems I have had with the TLM105, is that the PCB broke after a microphone fell.
Always on the same place! Extreme small traces.
What is the idea behind all the 'S' curves near the XLR insert?
Shock isolation perhaps? Well, it seems to do more harm than good...

@RuudNL , is the LF roll off on those caused by the circuit?

 

[RuudNL]

@ubxf: this is the KMS105, my mistake!

As far as I know, the roll-off is caused by the circuit. I tried the capsule (looking very much like a KK84) in a different microphone and as far as I remember at that moment there was a full LF response. But it is already a long time ago that I tested this.

 

[JCraft]

After partially cannibalizing a modded Apex 460 in order to build the C12 clone on this site I have a double sided Peluso CEK-89 capsule left over (using Tim’s capsule in the C12 clone and love it). Wondering if the Peluso would be a suitable replacement/upgrade in the WA-67?

Thanx!

 

[abbey road d enfer]

@RuudNL , is the LF roll off on those caused by the circuit?

The KMS105 is a hand-held mic, used in close proximity. In order to manage the proximity effect, a HPF must be built in the circuitry.

 

[kingkorg]

The KMS105 is a hand-held mic, used in close proximity. In order to manage the proximity effect, a HPF must be built in the circuitry.

Sure, but a switchable hpf could be handy. The grille is also removable, not necessary as that capsule doesn't need shielding. So hpf off, minus the grille = usable general purpose km184 related SDC . Nice bonus to already great handheld.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Sure, but a switchable hpf could be handy.

It's a vocal mic. You give a singer a microphone with a switch, you can be sure it will end up in the wrong position.

 

[kingkorg]

It's a vocal mic. You give a singer a microphone with a switch, you can be sure it will end up in the wrong position.

Lol!

 

[Lelandletham]

CAPSULE

This is what Warm Audio says in their website and the mics manual about the capsule used:

"we went to great lengths to recreate the capsule from the original ’67, making sure that ours performs the same way, has the same frequency response and contributes to the same chewy character as the original. That meant not only ensuring that the hole pattern was identical, but we also made sure to craft the entire assembly out of brass (including the mounting rings) just like the original design. It takes more time and it’s more expensive than using multiple types of material, but we felt that it was critical to go the extra mile on this microphone."

About the mounting rings being made of brass "like the original design" I'm not really sure about that statement as Neumann produces these capsules since 1960, and only in the first 4 years the K67 capsule had brass rings, so in all original Neumann capsules ever made there's 4 years of brass rings and 57 years of plastic rings... So what should be considered original?

As for the hole pattern the capsule they've put in this mic doesn't seem to have the common K67 hole pattern, it's a bit strange and different and also different than the photo of the capsule Warm Audio has in their website.

Here is the photo from Warm Audio website, showing a capsule that seems to have the standard K67 hole pattern, the ring has recessed screws:

View attachment 88191

And here is the hole pattern of the capsule that came with the mic, notice also this one doesn't have recessed screws:

View attachment 88192

View attachment 88193

It seems there's less holes in the backplates and it's also a strange pattern that I haven't seen before,
so why bragging with "the hole pattern was identical (...) just like the original design (...) but we felt that it was critical to go the extra mile on this microphone". More bullshit from Warm Audio?


View attachment 88194

I don't know who makes this capsule but there's some red separators between the rings and the backplates

That’s a Guosheng made capsule btw or 797, believe they get them from 3u though like a lot of other companies hush hush. For the price these seem very well made I have to say

 

[Whoops]

That’s a Guosheng made capsule btw or 797, believe they get them from 3u though like a lot of other companies hush hush. For the price these seem very well made I have to say

It's already said in this thread that this mic uses a 3Uaudio capsule that is a K67 style but modified with less backplate holes to reduce the high end boost in standard K67 capsules

 

[benqbasic]

What is the idea behind all the 'S' curves near the XLR insert?

Built in DeSSSer

 

[soliloqueen]

That’s a Guosheng made capsule btw or 797, believe they get them from 3u though like a lot of other companies hush hush. For the price these seem very well made I have to say

it actually is not. It's by AYM. Guosheng uses this design, but it's not his. It's not a K67 with holes removed. It's 2 k103 front backplates bolted together.

There's more than one manufacturer of this type of capsule.

 

[soliloqueen]

Hi mate, I don't know to what capsule you're referring to but the capsule in the Warm Audio WA-67 is a 3U audio capsule

nope! It's an AYM capsule. You can tell by the pink/orange wax dot on the center screw and the different sized/placed holes and different clamping ring and type of brass than the equivalent 3u capsule. just because 3u sells a similar design and all of the other warm capsules are from 3u does not mean that this capsule is a 3u capsule.

The equivalent 3u capsule looks like this:


The AYM capsule (pinkish orangish dot not yet applied) looks like this:


there are 2 manufacturers of this exact design, and this one was made by AYM. 3u doesn't have a monopoly on this backplate design. It's just 2 TLM 103 capsule front backplates bolted together. It's not special.

 

[Whoops]

Hi mate,
Thanks for the photos, it’s clear in the photos that the 3U capsule is different.
So thank you so much for correcting us and thanks for the info.

Strange that Warm used 3U capsules in other mics and choose a different manufacturer for this mic.

what is AYM? What’s the background?
Never heard about them

 

[soliloqueen]

They're really old. They make the mic parts capsules. They used to be Tongxin. They built a new factory and upped their manufacturing quality considerably and they decided to rename the whole company after the new factory location.

 

[Snatchman]

So, slightly off topic..Will a real K-67 capsule fit this without a bunch of modifications..?

 

[TillM]

Yes