What Happened in Vegas?

[pucho812]

I'm half brown...  We have a difference in opinion. Do I agree with everything a person says? no. Do I have certain concerns that I feel one person is better at sure. Do I care for all the rest of it, no.  But lets look at some of the events recently who is fueling the fire, who is not. While I detest neo nazis, they have a legal right to assemble address their grievances. Sorry but that is the law of the land. That part I agree with. I hate their message but let them say it. Who cares.  Oh I know who cares. The people who are so anti their message that they show up and will do whatever it takes to stop their message. That makes them no better then the very people they hate.  You can fight fire with fire. Show up to a nazi rally for the singular purpose to cause havoc and hurt people is not going to stop the neo nazis nor will it win you any favors with my kind who don't give a shit because we are more focused on  other issues.  I have hit the 3 stages of life too old, too tired, too sober for all this nonsense. I wish someone would just tell all the knuckleheads to knock it off.

 

[mattiasNYC]

Well...but you can't fight city hall. There are so many atrocities and injustices in the world, and if I take them all up as my cause, it will destroy me. I can't handle negativity 24/7. So, like many others, I become numb to it all, and/or block it out.

I have enough battles in my own life to fight, let alone take up everyone else's worthy causes. That's my excuse, but I imagine most people fall into this category. But lashing out at everyone also doesn't work. Is it working for you? I mean that kindly.

Yeah. It's working swimmingly.

I've taken a cue from the There's-too-much-PC-in-the-world-crowd. I'm not going to be PC any longer. Hey, about a year ago I would have been as mellow as you are, and I might have said "Hey, you know, sometimes it's not about not being PC, it's about not being an a-hole..." But now I'm totally on board with the offense-wagon. I feel it's cathartic.

Or maybe the above is me being facetious. I don't know any longer. All I know is that I find it more offensive to support supporters of racism than not being PC on a forum. Make of that what you will.

 

[DaveP]

Back in the 1960's I saw this wisdom on a public toilet wall:

"Fighting for peace is like f**king for virginity"

Aggressive behaviour defeats the object, it just entrenches beliefs and gives the other guy a reason to hate you that bit more.

What changes a white racist marine is when a black marine rescues him from the bad guys.

No-one is born a racist, they learn it from their family and friends, it needs a reality check like the example I gave above to change minds.

Don't think that racists are just white either, the whole of India is divided into castes that despise one another.  Africa has tribes that are at each others throats. look how many elections are rigged or disputed on tribal lines.

DaveP

 

[mattiasNYC]

I'm half brown... 

semi-progress.... or is it static?

lets look at some of the events recently who is fueling the fire, who is not. While I detest neo nazis, they have a legal right to assemble address their grievances. Sorry but that is the law of the land. That part I agree with. I hate their message but let them say it.

We agree on this.

Who cares.  Oh I know who cares. The people who are so anti their message that they show up and will do whatever it takes to stop their message. That makes them no better then the very people they hate.

That's just plain stupid though. If you don't get what the difference is between being a protester chanting in favor of anti-semitism and white supremacy and on the other hand being a protester chanting against that then I don't know what to say.

Would you have said the same thing if this was the latter half of the 1930's? In Germany? People protesting the original Nazis were just as bad as the Nazis?

It's a stupid argument.

You can fight fire with fire. Show up to a nazi rally for the singular purpose to cause havoc and hurt people is not going to stop the neo nazis nor will it win you any favors with my kind who don't give a sh*t because we are more focused on  other issues.  I have hit the 3 stages of life too old, too tired, too sober for all this nonsense. I wish someone would just tell all the knuckleheads to knock it off.

There you go again seemingly equating the two sides. One side wishes for white supremacy, the other for equality. It's first of all not the same thing.

Secondly, it isn't about the counter-protesters, it's about the president making them out to be about equally evil.

 

[mattiasNYC]

Back in the 1960's I saw this wisdom on a public toilet wall:

"Fighting for peace is like f**king for virginity"

It's a wonderfully pacifist peaceful message. I like it.

I also happen to like that the west kicked old Adolf's behind in the 40's. That wasn't really aligned with the above message though.

Don't think that racists are just white either, the whole of India is divided into castes that despise one another.  Africa has tribes that are at each others throats. look how many elections are rigged or disputed on tribal lines.

DaveP

And I've been careful to point out at several occasions that the above is indeed the case, and you can see that with several non-white groups in the US.

But equating anti-racists with racists does nothing to promote racial "harmony", or even better, even ending the acceptance of that stupid concept.

 

[mattiasNYC]

Well turn your attention to the Nazis and the anti-semites and maybe not spend your time trying to convince the world that Trump is one when he's never said he was...

If he was one he wouldn't say it unless he thought people would support it. So whether or not he's said exactly that is irrelevant to that issue.

and actually  condemned them..just not fast enough for you so it must mean?????What???? .. No matter how hard you try to spin it with the logic you deem truth.....if it isn't there....it isn't fair.....

Again: He said there were very nice people among those white supremacist racist anti-semites. I call that support. I don't know what you call it, but apparently white supremacists in the US agree with that interpretation. What other evidence do we need?

 

[pucho812]

would you prefer we equate antifa with fascism because they are behaving like fascist?

 

[mattiasNYC]

would you prefer we equate antifa with fascism because they are behaving like fascist?

So Facism = anti-facism....?
Theism = Atheism....?
Peace = war?....

There's a difference between ideology and action.

I doubt anyone would've been able to peacefully protest an army the size and psyco behavior of Aldolf's....
Force was necessary....He killed millions..... And had big guns.....Had peaceful negotiations been successful, I'm sure they would've prevailed...

Well, to quote someone else: "The people who are so anti their message that they show up and will do whatever it takes to stop their message. That makes them no better then the very people they hate."

So, what if we had a time machine and went back to the thirties and protested Adolf's horrible upcoming regime and agenda? What if we did "whatever it takes to stop their message"? I'm actually in favor of free speech, but would it have made us "no better than the very people" we hate?

People protest these knuckleheads strongly not because they're just disliked, but because we've already seen what happens when their ideology reaches the seats of state power.

 

[tands]

A racist shot MLK.

 

[bluebird]

shut up TANDS your not in this...

 

[tands]

Chicken.  8)

 

[tands]

You forgot the link.....

Lmao, here you go.

Ad hominem is a Latin word that means “against the man.” As the name suggests, it is a literary term that involves commenting on or against an opponent, to undermine him instead of his arguments.

There are cases in which, whether consciously or unconsciously, people start to question the opponent or his personal associations, rather than evaluating the soundness and validity of the argument that he presents. These types of arguments are usually mistaken for personal insults, but they are somehow different in nature and the distinction is very subtle.

Arguers who are not familiar with the principles of making logical arguments commonly end up saying something that would draw the audience’s attention to the distasteful characteristics of the individual. Such people use this fallacy as a tool to deceive their audiences.

https://literarydevices.net/ad-hominem/

 

[tands]

It will never happen again.......
These are small fringe groups that are using Trump (on both sides) to create division.....
Peace always wins....
And, the good news is (for people who want peace), WE ALL want it and will probably join others to fight for it.
MLK was a great example.....
He was a peaceful man....

A racist shot MLK.

 

[tands]

I don't have a link for you, scott2000. Wiping your nose is a waste of my time.

 

[Phrazemaster]

What's the Latin term for when you realize that an argument is not about the argument at all, but about giving the arguer attention and power? Ad Flamenum?

And that the only way to quell the flames is to stop feeding it with responses? The Subtractus Attentionium?

Wasn't this thread about Vegas?

 

[nielsk]

There is only one thing that could have prevented the recurring type of tragedy most recently evident in Las Vegas:
A complete ban on all semi and fully automatic weapons and the stockpiling of ammunition.
The supreme court has already determined that this is in compliance with the 2nd amendment. There is nothing in the 2nd amendment that declares rights to access any of these weapons.
There is absolutely no good reason for any private citizen to posses these military type weapons. They are machines for mass killing of human beings, not for self defense or hunting.

Of course this will not happen as it would impact the profit of weapons  manufactures.

I see no correlation of what happened in Las Vegas to what is going on in Spain / Catalonia, was the former (and longest running) fascist government a result of lead poisoning? 

 

[pucho812]

ban guns? It worked with drugs making them illegal.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Please people don't get sucked into the quagmire...  arguing for the sake of argument is pointless.

There is an old joke about wrestling with a pig in the mud.... after a while you realize the pig likes rolling in the mud.  ;D

JR

PS: On topic we still do not know the shooters motive.

 

[Banzai]

Not particularly amusing to see all the conservatives and Trump voters ganging up on Mattias here. Frankly, I find him pretty mild compared to some of the really offensive crap some of you post.

And there's zero consistency in striving for peace and harmony in society... and voting for Trump. It's insulting to even pretend that's true.

 

[Banzai]

And the ones speaking their opinions that differ from Matt's who aren't "Trump Supporters or conservatives" ?

No such thing ?

Trump voters, not supporters. As soon as he opened his mouth post-election, the two stopped being the same thing.

I won't ask about your leanings, or if you voted for him, that's your business. Luckily for the rest of us, less than 20% of the US population voted for Trump. He doesn't represent the will or desire of the majority of Americans. Not even close. That's why no-one's building a wall around you (yet), and there's still hope for you after all this is over.

Sorry, but he's unfit to run a brothel.