Why don’t companies incorporate mods?

[pucho812]

One of the bass players I know picked up a new bass amp recently.  I am leaving company name and model out. Immediately upon hearing it, it sounded great but it had a hum issue. Reading the net and spec sheet confirmed the hum issue is common in current production units and the unit has 60dB signal to noise.. the net already had a solution addressing the issue and it worked well.  Drops the noise by an additional 20dB It added 1 lytic and a resistor to the unit. A move costing a few dollars in parts.
I am wondering why said company would not incorporate  it when it has been proven to work well and the net even had measurements taken proving Pre and post mod. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

One of the bass players I know picked up a new bass amp recently.  I am leaving company name and model out. Immediately upon hearing it, it sounded great but it had a hum issue. Reading the net and spec sheet confirmed the hum issue is common in current production units and the unit has 60dB signal to noise.. the net already had a solution addressing the issue and it worked well.  Drops the noise by an additional 20dB It added 1 lyric and a resistor to the unit. A move costing a few dollars in parts.
I am wondering why said company would not incorporate  it when it has been proven to work well and the net even had measurements taken proving Pre and post mod.

I can't (or shouldn't) speculate with incomplete information but I have my share of experience with making changes to production products.  (I also have stories... but first the situation).

A simple post production mod on your bench is not equivalent to even a simple production change in the factory.  If this was some high end product built one at a time to order, it would be relatively easy to incorporate such a mod.  A production design change is harder but for now let's KISS.

If these are built in any kind of mass production, who knows how many may be sitting in a warehouse that need modding? What if these are built in some distant factory far far away? There could be a pile sitting in containers on a boat on the ocean?  How fat is the profit margin? Enough to justify expensive rework. Not to mention if these are UL approved products, the rework needs to be UL approved, or at least in a UL monitored factory. 

Making a simple change to the design for new production is relatively easy, but still not trivial requiring new PCB tooling, new insertion sequences, BOM and routing changes etc.  Reworking already built units can be a cost nightmare. 

So the answer is it depends.

Then there is corporate politics...  Making changes to existing products that affect the profitability (like adding parts) is not routinely embraced by upper management. Not to share dirty laundry but years ago when I worked inside one such cost sensitive organization. A golden ear speaker design engineer I was friendly with asked me to approve an engineering change order to a loudspeaker he was responsible for. His boss who played the corporate politics game far better than I did, refused to approve the engineering change notice (to a polypropylene capacitor in a passive crossover), because it increase the cost some $0.20 . To me this was a no brainer, so I approved it. Even though I was not responsible for loudspeaker products I was at a high enough director level over other engineering areas that my signature on the ECN was adequate. ("When in doubt do what's right".)

So short answer it comes down to cost...

JR

 

[pucho812]

I understand that. My last company bench stint had us selling a known mod for money or if they wanted to do the work themselves, we would give out the info.  More often people just paid to have it done.

That said, my original post is about ampeg and a model they make.  The hum is well documented except in any magazine review I have seen on the amp. But it was obvious and quite loud.  How they didn’t address an elephant in the room is beyond me. 🤔

 

[JohnRoberts]

I understand that. My last company bench stint had us selling a known mod for money or if they wanted to do the work themselves, we would give out the info.  More often people just paid to have it done.

That said, my original post is about ampeg and a model they make.  The hum is well documented except in any magazine review I have seen on the amp. But it was obvious and quite loud.  How they didn’t address an elephant in the room is beyond me. 🤔

I've got stories, but not now... 

JR

 

[PRR]

> One of the bass players I know picked up a new bass amp recently.

I assume he bought and paid for it.

So what's the problem?

If he is truly unhappy about the hum, he may have 30 or 90 days to return, maybe for some refund.

If enough of these amps get returned, maybe the company will learn something.

 

[pucho812]

> One of the bass players I know picked up a new bass amp recently.

I assume he bought and paid for it.

So what's the problem?

If he is truly unhappy about the hum, he may have 30 or 90 days to return, maybe for some refund.

If enough of these amps get returned, maybe the company will learn something.

yes. hum aside it sounds too good to let go...  easier to just mod it as requested...

 

[okgb]

There's allot of product , for various reasons that make me wonder how they ever made it to market

 

[JohnRoberts]

There's allot of product , for various reasons that make me wonder how they ever made it to market

The market over time is the true test... If all the products suck, or blow up, or whatever makes then not merchantable, the company goes bye-bye...

The success of some companies, held in pretty low regard, does not always correlate with the market reality of their success. Of course companies end up in the ditch all the time (creative destruction).

JR

 

[Rochey]

most companies will have to do a manufacturing quality re-qualification to make sure that the mod is sustainable, doesn't cause reliability issues and doesn't introduce any other issues into the product.

That costs money. On top of all the other issues that JohnR rightfully pointed out.

Unless it's a boutique product - Manufacturing is a pain in the arse that should be left to the experts.

Finally -  "food for thought". McDonalds is considered one of the highest quality food products on earth.
Not because the food is tasty and healthy, but because of the consistency of it's production. Wherever you go in the world, whichever of it's thousands of restaurants, you know exactly what you are getting, and their processes have been optimized to provide the exact same product, thousandss of times a day. (75 burgers per second).
To change that process (e.g. new Mustard supplier) means a LOT of work, a lot of requal.

/R

 

[JohnRoberts]

most companies will have to do a manufacturing quality re-qualification to make sure that the mod is sustainable, doesn't cause reliability issues and doesn't introduce any other issues into the product.

That costs money. On top of all the other issues that JohnR rightfully pointed out.

and one or more people have to admit that they made a mistake in the original design.  :

Unless it's a boutique product - Manufacturing is a pain in the arse that should be left to the experts.

Few appreciate the difference between making onsey-twosey of a given design, and large scale manufacturing making hundreds/thousands a month. Moving that production half way around the world introduces new ways to screw up.

Disciplined design engineers have to evaluate circuits for worst case component specifications, not just typical. You don't want a production line going down because of a part that meets the vendor's worst case spec, but causes problems. I once had to black ball a major IC vendor's 3 terminal regulator because they refused to even provide a noise spec... Never a problem until it was.

Finally -  "food for thought". McDonalds is considered one of the highest quality food products on earth.
Not because the food is tasty and healthy, but because of the consistency of it's production. Wherever you go in the world, whichever of it's thousands of restaurants, you know exactly what you are getting, and their processes have been optimized to provide the exact same product, thousandss of times a day. (75 burgers per second).
To change that process (e.g. new Mustard supplier) means a LOT of work, a lot of requal.

/R

Unclear if any of this applies to the OP, but large scale manufacturing (even french fries) is not trivial. McDonalds is probably a good example of process discipline with detailed BOM, routings, and detailed component (ingredient) specifications.

JR

 

[dmp]

Sounds like an SVT reissue I used to have.