Depends how you look at it. It wouldn't be a genuine Neumann no longer for sure.
U67 Build
- Thread starter dmp
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
What Abbey said....
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Cloning and counterfeiting is not against any existing forum rules (yet) but immoral and/or illegal behavior is strongly discouraged.
JR
Yeah @Drosselmeier just do what everyone else does, put a badge on it that looks just like the original, but put your brand on it. Then it will be ok to sell it, hell even call it your own design. Make sure you keep the 67 in the model name!
It seems to me greatest sin of yours at this point is the fact you come from Russia.
I wouldn't take all these harsh words to heart, 99% of this forum is based on ripping off other people's designs, even selling them. Badge doesn't do a thing to make any difference.
It seems to me greatest sin of yours at this point is the fact you come from Russia.
I wouldn't take all these harsh words to heart, 99% of this forum is based on ripping off other people's designs, even selling them. Badge doesn't do a thing to make any difference.
Drosselmeier
Well-known member
Thanks. I have blurred the Neumann logo on my photos or deleted.
Yes, it is important
You know, In certain countries, labels stating "Do not drink" are necessary on acid bottles to prevent individuals from ingesting them and subsequently filing lawsuits against those responsible for not including the label. To some people labels are important.
Drosselmeier
Well-known member
All my vials of isopropyl alcohol, acid or alkali are labeled "poison".
I'm reminder of a very popular (and successful) guitar pedal company that managed to not only copy the infamous Klon Centaur's circuit and likeness, but rip-off Ikea to boot: https://jhspedals.info/products/notaklon
They have been widely celebrated for doing so, and in the US, no-less.
They have been widely celebrated for doing so, and in the US, no-less.
rock soderstrom
Tour de France
That's not true, go to the other sub-areas of Groupdiy, there are really many independent projects that have been created in collaboration or completely on their own. Completely without stealing and deceiving, just for fun. If you insist, I'll send you a list, then you'll see how far off the mark you are with your 99%.
It's amazing how much encouragement a thief and deceiver gets here, but it doesn't change the fact of what he is.
Finding a way to bypass infringement is no different to blatantly riping-off product. In most cases products relying on legally bypassed copyright issues damage the original brand sales more significantly than 1:1 replicas.
In other words, simple statement from Neumann "watch out for counterfeits" would solve much of the problem. On the other hand suing all the companies that have based their product on historical and current Neumann designs, but call it their own would lead to a disaster.
And now that you said it, go back and see how much traction those projects have by comparing them to threads like elam 251, u47, u87, clone projects. Post count, and view count.
I am talking form the perspective of my former position of product specialist at globaly present music instrument manufacturer who had insight into internal info on marketing and production issues of this type.
I am not supporting theft or deceit, i'm pointing to the things that really matter instead of simple legal issue. There is a problem with innocent until proven guilty. And calling out a civilian that could be as well suffering from the actions of their own government not due to their own fault. @Drosselmeier never said he's selling the mic. The PSU is obviously not branded as Neumann, and you would have to be a moron to buy this mic and believe it is an original. And even then you would have an option to sue the seller for fraud in case you bought it. The threadstarter and the original posts are at least as problematic as Drosselmeier's posts.
I can give you a list of 10 products right now that are for sale on White Market that are way more problematic than this badge issue. Yet people drool over them and put them selves on waiting lists to get them.
I am not even going into the issue of document section of this forum. You are barking at the wrong tree.
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rock soderstrom
Tour de France
You should have a look at groupdiy.com outside the microphone area, then you will see that I am right. The extreme copying is greatest in the microphone area, there is actually very little new ideas here, the blunt copying is absolutely in the foreground. No idea why..there are very few commendable exceptions
That's not true, he clearly stated that it was done on behalf of a customer for money. Read the thread again and you will see that there is no doubt here. The guy has convicted himself with his bragging.
It's true, sometimes things are going wrong on groupdiy.com. I have already mentioned this several times. But that doesn't justify Drosselmeier's brazen behavior.
He is a counterfeiter and a thief. I have no respect for guys like that.
Modifying a Chinese U87ai to function as a U67 for a customer that hired him to do so is not the same thing as selling "authentic Neumann U67" microphones that are actually fakes.
rock soderstrom
Tour de France
What are you talking about? The man buys industrial counterfeit products to convert them into fake U67s for customers. This is done for money, so it's commercial theft of IP and trademarks. What else?
This guy is a thief. No respect.
Again there's a diference. He's not selling it, he transplanted counterfeit circuit, the idea started with the OP. He did technical work for another person. The whole hell broke lose because the f*ing badge that the customer could have ordered on eBay and put it on the mic them selves. Do i need to mention the big elefant in the room - the transformer? All Drosselmeier did was transplant counterfeit circuit with counterfeit parts into counterfeit body. He didn't counterfeit anything!
rock soderstrom
Tour de France
That is not true. He has clearly admitted to selling modified Neumann product counterfeits to customers for money for commercial reasons.
He called them his "products" and said that this was okay because it would not be prosecuted in Russia.
That is the reality, that is 100% product counterfeiting with commercial intent.
Stop talking yourselves into it. The guy is a thief.
Well, i'll take another approach then. At current state of things he's saying:
"Look at what we in Russia can do, and there's not a thing you can do about it except whine on a forum and do virtue signaling. Can't even ban me from the forum as the rules are stupid, and I even managed circumvent them. No laws broken, so legaly I am not a thief, unless Neumann finds a way to prosecute me directly and try to prove otherwise. So go on, call me a liar, thief, fraud, that seems to be the only thing you can do. However, most of you here are doing the exact same thing"
Sorry @Drosselmeier for putting words into your mouth, I'm sure this was not your intent. I believe i made my point, we can only agree to disagree. From the legal point of view he hasn't done anything wrong. From moral point of view? Well that depends...
"Look at what we in Russia can do, and there's not a thing you can do about it except whine on a forum and do virtue signaling. Can't even ban me from the forum as the rules are stupid, and I even managed circumvent them. No laws broken, so legaly I am not a thief, unless Neumann finds a way to prosecute me directly and try to prove otherwise. So go on, call me a liar, thief, fraud, that seems to be the only thing you can do. However, most of you here are doing the exact same thing"
Sorry @Drosselmeier for putting words into your mouth, I'm sure this was not your intent. I believe i made my point, we can only agree to disagree. From the legal point of view he hasn't done anything wrong. From moral point of view? Well that depends...
Lets all try to be nice, even when pointing out undesirable behavior.
JR
JR
rock soderstrom
Tour de France
???
rock soderstrom
Tour de France
How can you say that nicely when someone is committing counterfeiting and theft of IP and trademarks for commercial reasons?
This is not undesirable behavior but illegal and the member Drosselmeier is responsible for it. He is a thief.
to be fair, that's not what he admitted to. he admitted to using a body his customer bought as a donor body. i think that's why you're getting so much pushback. this forum is full of pedants (including myself). personally, i don't like it either. i would remove the neumann logo if a client asked me to use it as a donor body as a condition of service, but that's just me. there is certainly an argument to be made about all sales still contributing to counterfeit operations, though. you definitely have a great point about that.
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rock soderstrom
Tour de France
That's not quite right, the situation was clear. In retrospect, statements were changed, things were deleted and reality was modified somewhat. I was there live and saw what was said.
I don't want to have anything to do with people like that because I know some of the victims. There is no respect from me for that.
I think I've made my point
