Igor

Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« on: November 17, 2011, 08:45:28 PM »
Expandable, flexible, f*ck up the lunchbox. Yep!

Without talking too much, ordered the first protos, the rest.......will update when have a time.

In short, each box can fit 2 slots of 500/51X; expandable, stackable.....etc etc.







Ah. In case of whatever, the backplane (also will be here at Nov22nd!!!!)

« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 08:58:47 PM by Igor »
http://www.ij-audio.com
(new site hopefully will be up in July)


Balijon

    Enschede 'the town of Grolsch', The Netherlands
  • Posts: 165
Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2011, 09:18:28 PM »
Nice Igor!

Isn't it time for onboard DC-DC converters by now?

Theo
Living on the edge is not always stable.

gemini86

Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2011, 11:02:20 PM »
hmmm... what's your price point? doesn't look cheap... :) (nothing you make looks "cheap" ::thumbs:: )
- Rodney

"...you better call Kenny Loggins, 'cause you're in the danger zone."

mulletchuck

Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2011, 02:24:22 AM »
it almost looks like a 500-series version of this:
www.youtube.com/mulletchuck for all my recordings

gemini86

Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2011, 02:34:53 AM »
I thought about trying to use a cheapy extruded case to fit two modules in, but trying to sort through all the sizes on ebay got to be a real downer...

- Rodney

"...you better call Kenny Loggins, 'cause you're in the danger zone."

zayance

Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2011, 05:37:03 AM »
Nice, curious about the PSU, design/space etc.... could be an expansion as well to the 2boxe space, or external again?

Curious about the rest also, waiting patiently....
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 05:47:13 AM by zayance »

SamRyan

Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2011, 07:29:16 AM »
This is exactly what I have been looking for, I am also curious to see if you can integrate the PSU into one of the spaces instead of building an external supply.

Balijon

    Enschede 'the town of Grolsch', The Netherlands
  • Posts: 165
Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2011, 07:48:04 AM »
This is exactly what I have been looking for, I am also curious to see if you can integrate the PSU into one of the spaces instead of building an external supply.

I suggest DC-DC converters on the backplane and a 'simple' external 12V-15V adapter-style-power-supply, like Ruppert Neve does on his Portico series.

grT
Living on the edge is not always stable.

Igor

Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2011, 12:48:10 PM »
Nice Igor!

Isn't it time for onboard DC-DC converters by now?

Theo

No DC/DC. It's not good with Audio Krishna and not kosher.


Quote
hmmm... what's your price point?

AFFORDABLE;  still not calculated, but...trying to get low as possible...

Quote
doesn't look cheap... :) (nothing you make looks "cheap" ::thumbs:: )

Mm :)

Quote
Nice, curious about the PSU, design/space etc.... could be an expansion as well to the 2boxe space, or external again?

Power supply will be +/-24, +48V, EXTERNAL.
Kosher and Canonically Catholic, blessed by  Pope of United Jewish Islamic Taoist Church
of Hot Tube Sound, St. Bender. Bugagagaga!!!!!!!!

Stay tuned. More interest = better price!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 12:59:47 PM by Igor »
http://www.ij-audio.com
(new site hopefully will be up in July)

Igor

Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2011, 01:07:43 PM »
Ah yep! Forgot. The power supply will have enough amperes for 4-6 slots.
Possible, yes, to build it in another 2-slot MicroRack, or suitable enclosure....
First have to see where am I with pricing on 50-100 MicroRacks.
http://www.ij-audio.com
(new site hopefully will be up in July)


ncoak

Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2011, 01:43:36 PM »
why not? cause i'm patiently waiting on the 4x4 mastering matrix, the stepped sontec, and this guy http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=45919.0
 8) 8) ;D ;D

Balijon

    Enschede 'the town of Grolsch', The Netherlands
  • Posts: 165
Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2011, 01:45:34 PM »
Nice Igor!

Isn't it time for onboard DC-DC converters by now?

Theo

No DC/DC. It's not good with Audio Krishna and not kosher.

enlighten me Rabi ..why please?....
It is even in your tablet's  ;) ...


Rupert Neve is not kosher?! wow...  :'( , that's one Pope down....

Theo
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 02:04:35 PM by Balijon »
Living on the edge is not always stable.

zayance

Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2011, 01:48:33 PM »
Ah yep! Forgot. The power supply will have enough amperes for 4-6 slots.
Possible, yes, to build it in another 2-slot MicroRack, or suitable enclosure....
First have to see where am I with pricing on 50-100 MicroRacks.

Yes of course, i was thinking of something like this anyway, if IEC on front with swicth i don't care.
Second slot space for Heatsinks and Rail fuses maybe (if want to go super safety)
Waiting for a price.

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=41617.60
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 01:51:51 PM by zayance »

zayance

Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2011, 02:26:21 PM »
@Balijon: Sounds kind of rude?,

 but i guess DC/DC could bring some dirt in the DC rails? If design is not optimum i guess also...
Of course others have done it with success as you said so why not.....
I'm just saying this because some have experienced that kind of things in some builds and modules
in here EQN iirc, and some others....
Price could be pretty high for them most of the time i think, or most good ones are only SMD, and so not DIY friendly,
even if a simple SOIC 8 is not that hard anyway....
And anyway, this is only metal work, you can do whatever you wich or like afterwards,
design your own PSU, backplane etc..... internal / external whatever no?

But again i'm not an expert...
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 02:34:30 PM by zayance »

Balijon

    Enschede 'the town of Grolsch', The Netherlands
  • Posts: 165
Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2011, 07:18:44 PM »
@Balijon: Sounds kind of rude?,
It was not my intention to offend anyone, if I do, I excuse.
@Igor: I have a great respect for your work, craftmanship and contributions! I hope you take my humor mildly.

On the subject:
I try to think different, as an engineer. I look at the 500/51x platform as a very cumbersome way to hook-up 2 XLR's and a power-feed. (Again no disrespect!)
Especially the exotic connector we use and the fight to support different voltages (like 24V and tubes) within the infrastructure.
I always look for simplicity, it would be a great flexibility if would just convert on the print what we need to power a specific design and use a common available (consumer-priced) widely available adapter, that is not critical in the performance. This is what Rupert Neve does in his Portico designs.
Look at your mobile phone and the adapter-nightmare we had to put up with for years! I am very happy that this has been regulated in Europe now. I am extremely happy that I do not have to rebuild my car when I switch phones...

DC-DC converters have another advantage: Classic power-lines are sewers of the audio signal, transmitting garbage from module to module, a super highway for dirt transport. The effort we put into isolation through input and output transformers is for keeping our signals clean from polluting dirt. DC-DC converters are transformer Isolated and do just this for the power-lines.
Yes, they are switching power-supplies that can introduce harmonics because they switch on a high (in-audiable) frequency. But you will notice in a bad design (same as a bad grounding design). I is a mature and affordable technology that is applied in many things that surround us and we use on a daily basis.
I think that we should be open for the merits it can bring us, if we understand how to apply it well.
I think it is too simple to only have 'religion' and tradition disregard this.

grT
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 07:29:56 PM by Balijon »
Living on the edge is not always stable.

Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2011, 07:52:11 PM »
Good stuff!!!

Igor

Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2011, 11:24:30 AM »
Well... got the prototype. Have to do it in black Zinc coating. Measures are fine.
More pictures with backplane PCB and power supply - later.





« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 11:30:15 AM by Igor »
http://www.ij-audio.com
(new site hopefully will be up in July)

Igor

Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2011, 11:49:17 AM »
@Balijon: Sounds kind of rude?,
It was not my intention to offend anyone, if I do, I excuse.
@Igor: I have a great respect for your work, craftmanship and contributions! I hope you take my humor mildly.

On the subject:
I try to think different, as an engineer. I look at the 500/51x platform as a very cumbersome way to hook-up 2 XLR's and a power-feed. (Again no disrespect!)
Especially the exotic connector we use and the fight to support different voltages (like 24V and tubes) within the infrastructure.
I always look for simplicity, it would be a great flexibility if would just convert on the print what we need to power a specific design and use a common available (consumer-priced) widely available adapter, that is not critical in the performance. This is what Rupert Neve does in his Portico designs.
Look at your mobile phone and the adapter-nightmare we had to put up with for years! I am very happy that this has been regulated in Europe now. I am extremely happy that I do not have to rebuild my car when I switch phones...

DC-DC converters have another advantage: Classic power-lines are sewers of the audio signal, transmitting garbage from module to module, a super highway for dirt transport. The effort we put into isolation through input and output transformers is for keeping our signals clean from polluting dirt. DC-DC converters are transformer Isolated and do just this for the power-lines.
Yes, they are switching power-supplies that can introduce harmonics because they switch on a high (in-audiable) frequency. But you will notice in a bad design (same as a bad grounding design). I is a mature and affordable technology that is applied in many things that surround us and we use on a daily basis.
I think that we should be open for the merits it can bring us, if we understand how to apply it well.
I think it is too simple to only have 'religion' and tradition disregard this.

grT

He! Cannot pass it silent. Great source of amusement, aye.
Cumbersome or not, matter of personal taste.
DC/DC converters: open your own thread and discuss it. You will find same mind experienced people of course.
For the start.
Find clean dc/dc converter for less than $20/watt, running at over 200kHz. A?
Usually they use 60-100kHz. Not as easy to filter out.
BTW in case if more than 1 converter used they should be synchronized to avoid interference.
After all. Why not than use high efficiency Ge photoelements and ultrabright led's.

Quote
Classic power-lines are sewers of the audio signal, transmitting garbage from module to module
as an engineer

Yes, of course.

Do next. Use 9k+1k in attenuator to get -20 db of audio signal, than, bring back the gain with single opamp say ne5534 and 9k+1k feedback r's, 22pf for stability.
Use all possible filters and feed the power from $10 5->+/-15 dc/dc converter; measure the s/n with soundcard; than feed the power from simple +/-15V supply done on 78/7915;
measure the noise again. Than do it with analyzer with and without weighting filters. You will discover new awesome horizons to discuss. But do it separately from here please.
http://www.ij-audio.com
(new site hopefully will be up in July)

radiance

Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2011, 01:21:12 PM »
@Balijon: Sounds kind of rude?,
It was not my intention to offend anyone, if I do, I excuse.
@Igor: I have a great respect for your work, craftmanship and contributions! I hope you take my humor mildly.

On the subject:
I try to think different, as an engineer. I look at the 500/51x platform as a very cumbersome way to hook-up 2 XLR's and a power-feed. (Again no disrespect!)
Especially the exotic connector we use and the fight to support different voltages (like 24V and tubes) within the infrastructure.
I always look for simplicity, it would be a great flexibility if would just convert on the print what we need to power a specific design and use a common available (consumer-priced) widely available adapter, that is not critical in the performance. This is what Rupert Neve does in his Portico designs.
Look at your mobile phone and the adapter-nightmare we had to put up with for years! I am very happy that this has been regulated in Europe now. I am extremely happy that I do not have to rebuild my car when I switch phones...

DC-DC converters have another advantage: Classic power-lines are sewers of the audio signal, transmitting garbage from module to module, a super highway for dirt transport. The effort we put into isolation through input and output transformers is for keeping our signals clean from polluting dirt. DC-DC converters are transformer Isolated and do just this for the power-lines.
Yes, they are switching power-supplies that can introduce harmonics because they switch on a high (in-audiable) frequency. But you will notice in a bad design (same as a bad grounding design). I is a mature and affordable technology that is applied in many things that surround us and we use on a daily basis.
I think that we should be open for the merits it can bring us, if we understand how to apply it well.
I think it is too simple to only have 'religion' and tradition disregard this.

grT

He! Cannot pass it silent. Great source of amusement, aye.
Cumbersome or not, matter of personal taste.
DC/DC converters: open your own thread and discuss it. You will find same mind experienced people of course.
For the start.
Find clean dc/dc converter for less than $20/watt, running at over 200kHz. A?
Usually they use 60-100kHz. Not as easy to filter out.
BTW in case if more than 1 converter used they should be synchronized to avoid interference.
After all. Why not than use high efficiency Ge photoelements and ultrabright led's.

Quote
Classic power-lines are sewers of the audio signal, transmitting garbage from module to module
as an engineer

Yes, of course.

Do next. Use 9k+1k in attenuator to get -20 db of audio signal, than, bring back the gain with single opamp say ne5534 and 9k+1k feedback r's, 22pf for stability.
Use all possible filters and feed the power from $10 5->+/-15 dc/dc converter; measure the s/n with soundcard; than feed the power from simple +/-15V supply done on 78/7915;
measure the noise again. Than do it with analyzer with and without weighting filters. You will discover new awesome horizons to discuss. But do it separately from here please.

Igor....man....you talk in riddles...
"Knowing that you are dreaming, however, does not automatically guarantee full rationality.
Then again, being awake doesn't ensure good thinking, either." -  Lynne Levitan

radiance

Re: Mm. Why not! Microrack!
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2011, 01:31:24 PM »
But do it separately from here please.

This I DO understand. And I think you got that wrong. The LAB is for discussion on projects.
If you just want to promote your goodies please start your own forum.
"Knowing that you are dreaming, however, does not automatically guarantee full rationality.
Then again, being awake doesn't ensure good thinking, either." -  Lynne Levitan


 

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