Which cables for internal wiring ?
« on: March 11, 2018, 05:33:35 AM »
Hello everyone,

i'm sure this has been discussed already, but still i can not find clear info about this.
I was wondering which cable you are using for internal wiring ? Is there some go-to-brand that you would recommend ?
(ideally available in germany)
For my last project i ordered some microphone cable from Conrad Electronic, and it turned out to be of rather poor quality (insulation, screen). I'm particularly looking for cables to wire 31pin Eurorack-Connectors to XLR connectors and also 24V cables (in-and outside the case). Also, on the pre-wired connectors done by the pros (which i'm obviously not ;) ), there are those bridges made of rigid wire (inter-connecting the 'ground' pins of each module), could anyone guess what wire was used there ?

In summary i'd highly appreciate some advice in chosing:

- cable for mic level signals
- cable for line level signals (if any difference ?)
- cable for 24V lines (diameter?)
- cable/wire for bridging pins

many many thanks in advance !
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 05:37:43 AM by ToniTonmann »


abbey road d enfer

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2018, 09:19:39 AM »
- cable for mic level signals
For short lengths, the only electrical parameter of importance is the quality of the shield; for best combination of performance and ease of wiring, I would use a cable with wrapped shield (aluminium foil or carbon composite) with a multi-strand drain wire.
Quote
- cable for line level signals (if any difference ?)
Same as above.
Quote
- cable for 24V lines (diameter?)
Rigid (single strand) with a daiameter compatible with the current; typically 1 mm² per 10 amps. Actually, this rule of thumb results in very small cross-section, so one ends up using much larger gauge only for the sake of rigidity.

 
Quote
- cable/wire for bridging pins
Single-strand rigid wire.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
"The important thing is not to convince, but to give pause for thought." (B. Werber)
Star ground is for electricians.

squarewave

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2018, 12:20:19 PM »
For low level or non-low impedance signals (like a mic signal or even a high level signal coming from the wiper of a pot) you probably want something with good shielding. Otherwise, for short length carrying audio or low current supply, just about any wire will do.

I'm cheap so I use only two kinds of wire for just about everything and reuse it in multiple scenarios.

I use Redco TGS snake cable for patchbays but I also remove the outer jacket and use the shielded bundles of 2 conductor (26 AWG I think) with shield and drain for all low level or non-low impedance signals. The jacket is a little thick but it works fine and I find that more often then not I need two conductors anyway. Actually the best thing is the drain wire makes it easy to work with because you can just snip off the shielding at the ends and solder to the relatively strong drain wire. I also have some single conductor coax that I might use if it's a long single run.

I use Beldon 9 conductor 22 AWG for my external power cables but again I remove the jacket and use individual conductors as hookup wire. This provides a nice assortment of colors as well. 22 AWG is a little thick for signals. 24 or 26 AWG would be fine for signals. You can find 25 feet of Beldon 9430 or 9455 or similar Alpha wire for $15 USD on Ebay.

Are these exactly correct for the application? No. But they will perform equally well and I don't want to deal with 10 different kinds of wire.

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2018, 08:57:02 PM »
Thank you both for the tipps ! I ended up ordering Alpha wire cables on ebay (22/26 AWG). Nevertheless i found it difficult to find the right cables...looks like one really has to know what he's looking for  :o

SIXTYNINER

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2018, 06:08:13 PM »
…Only as well a link about a cables source
unfortunately do not include a search option where put voltages, amperes , sizes , values
that help to  get the most correct cable type as needed  : (
https://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/en/overview/2510113/Harmonised-Certified-Cables?sort=Price-asc

but probably someone here
can help about
(considered the quantity of info and helps available about all the diy projects and parts ,
and still no 1 page or post about correct cable type to use for internal connections of mic-line audio signals ,
and the various voltages of power … 3,5V , 5V , 12V , 15V , 18V , 24V , 48V phantom..)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 06:15:02 PM by SIXTYNINER »
>>" 1 Picture say what billions words cannot "<< - >>"SMD Kill the DIY STAR"<<
Why in the  forum  if no share

Whoops

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2018, 07:54:30 PM »
- cable for mic level signals
- cable for line level signals (if any difference ?)

No diference

I use thin canare 2 twisted conductors + shield

r2d2

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2018, 09:22:39 AM »
No diference

I use thin canare 2 twisted conductors + shield

Hmmmmmm ……

mic cable for line signal ,I could agree. ..
but
line cable for mic , mostly to use in studio for tracking  with quality mic ,

i think it's not really the same thing   ::)

or i'm wrong ?  ::)
cheers
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 09:43:56 AM by r2d2 »
..... Cracking D.Vader Firewall ...  II-)

r2d2

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2018, 09:29:06 AM »
Quote
- cable for 24V lines (diameter?)
Rigid (single strand) with a daiameter compatible with the current; typically 1 mm² per 10 amps. Actually, this rule of thumb results in very small cross-section, so one ends up using much larger gauge only for the sake of rigidity.

please any specific product  link about ?

cheers

ps
i read here somewhere
about someone that use cat 5 or 6 Lan cable for any type of inside the box wires
but considered that the plastic coating of Lan cat 5-6 cable does not have much thickness
in case of a short  between internal power supply wires connections ?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 09:33:09 AM by r2d2 »
..... Cracking D.Vader Firewall ...  II-)

abbey road d enfer

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2018, 11:18:12 AM »
Hmmmmmm ……

mic cable for line signal ,I could agree. ..
but
line cable for mic , mostly to use in studio for tracking  with quality mic ,

i think it's not really the same thing   ::)

or i'm wrong ?  ::)
cheers
Sometimes "line" cable is better electrically than mic cable. Mic cable must be flexible; it's the first thing the user sees. Without this constraint, some "line" cables have dual shielding: aluminium foil + carbon and a shield drain; these cables have 100% coverage factor, when the best mic cables are about 95%.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
"The important thing is not to convince, but to give pause for thought." (B. Werber)
Star ground is for electricians.

abbey road d enfer

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2018, 11:27:50 AM »
i read here somewhere
about someone that use cat 5 or 6 Lan cable for any type of inside the box wires
but considered that the plastic coating of Lan cat 5-6 cable does not have much thickness
in case of a short  between internal power supply wires connections ?
Do you mean the jacket would melt? I think that would be the case for many cables, even rated at much higher voltages.
Cat5/6 cables are not rated for more than 48V, not because they can't but because its a precaution in order to avoid wire pullers to run them along power cables, which is a frequent cause of interference and malfunction.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
"The important thing is not to convince, but to give pause for thought." (B. Werber)
Star ground is for electricians.


pvision

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2018, 07:30:50 PM »
Cat5/6 cables are not rated for more than 48V, not because they can't but because its a precaution in order to avoid wire pullers to run them along power cables, which is a frequent cause of interference and malfunction.

I was intrigued enough to Google PoE to see what voltage it uses. 48 Volts sounds very familiar...

"Power over Ethernet is injected onto the cable at a voltage between 44 and 57 volts DC, and typically 48 volts is used"

Nick Froome

volker

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2018, 08:25:32 PM »
For internal shielded signal wiring I use Sommer Cable Cicada, you can get it from Thomann. For everything else I use silicone wire these days. It's just a joy to work with. Thicker diameters you can find at Tube-Town, thinner cable is available at Digikey or Mouser (this or even thinner).

PRR

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2018, 08:49:54 PM »
> Cat5/6 cables are not rated for more than 48V, not because

300V is in a typical spec: https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/282305/Old/assets/migrated-products/pdfs/1583A.pdf page 2

That does seem high to me.

Pirelli says 125V: https://web.archive.org/web/20060625021938if_/http://www.schrack.cz:80/fileadmin/f/cz/INFORMACNI_TECHNOLOGIE/PIRELLI/PIRELLI__kabely_utp__ftp.pdf   page 6

I've never known an installer to care about voltage ratings. The system designer has to plot routes away from other wires, and field-check the work. Either before Acceptance, or after the LAN drowns in excess lost packets.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 08:53:37 PM by PRR »

r2d2

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2018, 05:12:16 AM »
I was intrigued enough to Google PoE to see what voltage it uses. 48 Volts sounds very familiar...

"Power over Ethernet is injected onto the cable at a voltage between 44 and 57 volts DC, and typically 48 volts is used"

Nick Froome

also for the standard analog telephone cable  ?
..... Cracking D.Vader Firewall ...  II-)

abbey road d enfer

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2018, 05:51:04 AM »
also for the standard analog telephone cable  ?
Yes. It has long been determined than less than 48V is non-lethal (except for extended exposure). Anything that uses less than 48V is considered low-voltage, hence requiring less stringent safety requirements. It does not mean that standard telephone cable cannot withstand more than 48V, it just means it's not specified.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
"The important thing is not to convince, but to give pause for thought." (B. Werber)
Star ground is for electricians.

moamps

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2018, 07:36:57 AM »
The analog telephone cable should withstand DC power voltage and  ring signal which is AC 20-30Hz, 60-100V  IIRC,
so it is for sure rated for more than 100V.

Btw, I use Mogami 2944 for all low power internal audio wireing.

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2018, 12:23:36 PM »
I like Canare  L-2B2AT 2 for  internal. On the cheap I like Belden 2 conductor foil shield.

Sometimes braided shield if crosstalk is an issue.

Aren’t these voltage ratings without Amperage useless specs?

abbey road d enfer

Re: Which cables for internal wiring ?
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2018, 01:05:58 PM »
I like Canare  L-2B2AT 2 for  internal. On the cheap I like Belden 2 conductor foil shield.
Aren’t these voltage ratings without Amperage useless specs?
Amps rating is closely related to gauge. Rule of thumb is 10A/mm² for copper, so AWG17=>10A, AWG24=>2A
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
"The important thing is not to convince, but to give pause for thought." (B. Werber)
Star ground is for electricians.