Reverb
« on: June 21, 2020, 11:28:37 PM »
I’ve been working on a cover of Laura Nyro’s the Wind with my partner and I’m always floored by the sound of reverb on 60’s recordings. I’ve got a cheap lexicon I don’t use very much and I also have some Waves Abbey Road plug-ins I like until I’m actually using them.

I find it very difficult to achieve the level of lushness and presence yet somehow not drowning in it like in recordings of Laura Nyro, the Beach Boys, or  Brazilian stuff like early Gal Costa.

I’m sure they had access to amazing plates and probably rooms designed for certain sounds, but for some like me who has a studio full of DIY equipment and a computer, how can I get close to that sound?

Is there any reverb builds that y’all know of? A  plugin many recommend? Or should I just set up a speaker and a mic in my garage or something?  ;D


TwentyTrees

Re: Reverb
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2020, 01:39:14 AM »
I know exactly what you mean, there's definitely something about the reverb sounds of that era. For what it's worth, I've had good results from using plugin versions of chambers and plates (loving the recent Sunset Sound Studio Reverbs from IK) - but for lushness without swamping the signal I've found it's hard to beat Valhalla Vintage Verb. Best used on just one or two sources in my experience, and with pretty aggressive filtering.

ruffrecords

Re: Reverb
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2020, 04:11:59 PM »
Back in the 60s most reverbs were plain rooms with walls at odd angle plus a speaker and maybe one or two mic. You can get a good approximation of this in your bathroom.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

Michael Tibes

Re: Reverb
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2020, 04:38:19 PM »
I remember having seen a demonstration of that on youtube, it might have been from Warren Huart https://www.youtube.com/user/WarrenHuartRecording
The room in the example wasn't terribly big, but it was totally empty. It did sound really good. You might be on the right track considering your Garage  ;) There are some UAD plugings which might be helpful too: Capitol chambers, Ocean Way, Pureplate. I haven't heard the sunset studio plugin yet, but it could be intersting too.

Michael

ruffrecords

Re: Reverb
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2020, 05:17:19 PM »
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

Fuzz Face

Re: Reverb
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2020, 07:13:28 PM »
Here’s Mac Demarco showing us how it’s done  :D

https://youtu.be/SAuXvV5Ik20

Edit I enjoyed that video Ian thanks for sharing that
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 07:23:25 PM by Fuzz Face »

Re: Reverb
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2020, 07:32:49 PM »
Here’s Mac Demarco showing us how it’s done  :D

https://youtu.be/SAuXvV5Ik20

Edit I enjoyed that video Ian thanks for sharing that

Thank you. This was breathtaking.

My two-car garage is only used for our washer and dryer, my partner’s car, and random tools. It’s a concrete floor, wood paneling, and old fashioned metal garage door. I haven’t spent much time in there because it gets HOT in Texas. I think this may be the solution. Although I doubt it will reflect as well as a room covered in concrete lol.

Ryan

Re: Reverb
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2020, 12:59:17 AM »
The garage ceiling is low and soft I noticed for the first time today. Reflections were lameee. However, I've got a super high ceiling in my living room. The ceiling also has shaped like an attic. The room has hard walls and wood floors and have really nice reflections, but it's full of furniture. Might have to use it during mixdown when my partner isn't home so she doesn't kill me x_x.


Ryan

ruffrecords

Re: Reverb
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2020, 04:00:40 AM »
Here’s Mac Demarco showing us how it’s done  :D

Apart from how to build an echo chamber, I got two things from that video.

1. Serious gear envy. I had to go and have a lie down.
2. Reinforcement of the belief that there is no computer substitute for a real mixer.

Cheers

Ian
www.customtubeconsoles.com
https://mark3vtm.blogspot.co.uk/
www.eztubemixer.blogspot.co.uk


'The only people not making mistakes are the people doing nothing'

Re: Reverb
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2020, 05:03:22 PM »
Is there some medical reason the guy is slathered up with vaseline ,
the technique definately seems to work but Im not sure the point of the presentation style .
Macs on the wacky baccy is he ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85A1Dqehl5o
two two sibilance  ;D



Whoops

Re: Reverb
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2020, 10:25:46 PM »
I’ve been working on a cover of Laura Nyro’s the Wind with my partner and I’m always floored by the sound of reverb on 60’s recordings.

You should search for Echo Chambers, Spring Reverb and Plates

For Plates nowadays, even if they are analog EMT units or digital emulations you will get more close to the 60s if you cut a lot of high end and make them dark.
I de-ess the sends to the plates and EQ (high end roll off) the returns.
Remember that in the 60s the last octave from 10k to 20k was much attenuated compared to nowadays standards.
And digital recording is able to maintain that octave while tape is losing some of it in each tape playback


Re: Reverb
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2020, 02:51:05 AM »
Some time ago I made a plate reverb, I bought a large steel plate and suspended it on a frame, then I added piezo mics at each end, and a speaker in the middle to excite the plate. My experience is, its a great excercise and it does sound great, but plug-ins can get the same sound without having a 2.5m X 1.50 m plate in the room. Not worth it.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 02:56:06 AM by Dualflip »

Seeker

Re: Reverb
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2020, 03:27:50 AM »
One thing I like to do is to add a small amount of distortion to my verb returns... I like a lot of the sound toys plugins for this, devil loc, decapitator, little radiator....  this can change the way that the verb blends with the other sound in the mix in some pretty surprising ways.  I find it useful when I want more presence from the verb but without it becoming too washy.
"Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself.” - Miles

pahstah

Re: Reverb
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2020, 10:59:15 AM »
I’ve been working on a cover of Laura Nyro’s the Wind with my partner and I’m always floored by the sound of reverb on 60’s recordings. I’ve got a cheap lexicon I don’t use very much and I also have some Waves Abbey Road plug-ins I like until I’m actually using them.

I find it very difficult to achieve the level of lushness and presence yet somehow not drowning in it like in recordings of Laura Nyro, the Beach Boys, or  Brazilian stuff like early Gal Costa.

I’m sure they had access to amazing plates and probably rooms designed for certain sounds, but for some like me who has a studio full of DIY equipment and a computer, how can I get close to that sound?

Is there any reverb builds that y’all know of? A  plugin many recommend? Or should I just set up a speaker and a mic in my garage or something?  ;D

Laura Nyro's The Wind is on Gonna Take A Miracle, that album was recoded in Philadelphia at Sigma Sound Studios, I believe they used a chamber for revebs.
here's an interesting article about Sigma Sound: https://www.arpjournal.com/asarpwp/capturing-that-philadelphia-sound-a-technical-exploration-of-sigma-sound-studios/

Paolo

p.s. Laura is my favourite artist

living sounds

Re: Reverb
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2020, 06:07:48 AM »
The next best thing to a real room/hall is a Quantec unit. Its algorithm simulates the pressure differences in a room, instead of the usual approach of creating an approximation of wall reflections via delay lines. This results in a physically correct response to different stimuli and makes it possible to send an entire mix through the unit and still get a clear and convincing result.

I've got a an old QRS from the early 80s, which is not as powerfull as the latest Yardstick (though still more powerfull than the one from the 90s) but has more of a mojo to it. It's filled to the brink with cards stacked with chips. Sweeping sinewaves through it you can observe the maxima and minima shift between the channels (up to 4 for surround), dependent on the room size parameter.

It's one of those units that aren't very obvious unless you take it out of the mix. Of course, you can also do sublimely exaggerated reverberation, which gets you very close to the sound of classic records, IMO.

Sadly, the creator Wolf Buchleitner died too early a few years ago. An avid piano player, he had his epiphany regarding the resonances shouting into a piano and observing the subsequent 'reverberation'. Nobody has so far managed to create a convincing copy (or even an approximation) of the algorithm, which I believe requires very sophisticated fine tuning to work this well. There's a plugin that claims to incorporate the QRS algorithm, but to my ears it's a far cry from it.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 06:28:50 AM by living sounds »

Whoops

Re: Reverb
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2020, 08:07:15 PM »
The next best thing to a real room/hall is a Quantec unit. Its algorithm simulates the pressure differences in a room, instead of the usual approach of creating an approximation of wall reflections via delay lines.

I never listened a Quantec unit or algorithm so I can't give my opinion on that, but I trust you that it's a great tool.

But Altiverb has a really nice selection of echo chambers that sound great and I recommend those also.

Re: Reverb
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2020, 08:50:34 PM »
It appears those units go for as much as some plates.  :'(

living sounds

Re: Reverb
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2020, 04:42:02 AM »
I never listened a Quantec unit or algorithm so I can't give my opinion on that, but I trust you that it's a great tool.

But Altiverb has a really nice selection of echo chambers that sound great and I recommend those also.

While I agree impulse responses can sound nice they are also static. A real room, real plate and the Quantec algorithm react dynamically to the input. This makes a big difference.

The QRS XL can sometimes be bought for a rather affordable price here in Germany, it's probably harder to get in the US.

evil grill

Re: Reverb
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2020, 07:56:12 AM »
Back in the 60s most reverbs were plain rooms with walls at odd angle plus a speaker and maybe one or two mic. You can get a good approximation of this in your bathroom.

Cheers

Ian

We had a 4 story stair case outside of our rehearsal in the 90s. Very good reverb from that.

abbey road d enfer

Re: Reverb
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2020, 11:47:42 AM »
The next best thing to a real room/hall is a Quantec unit.
+1.
Who's right or wrong is irrelevant. What matters is what's right or wrong.
Star ground is for electricians.


 

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