24 channel mixer the "Stereotype"

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Ok so I have lots to talk about.

first the quotes came in on the new boards. It looks like the channel boards will be 16$ each and the new 4 channel input boards will be $30 each. I should see those in a week or two.

Now on to new business. I have been thinking about what this mixer is, and what it can be. The need for some sort of master section is becoming clear, but there is also the matter of stereo channels.

The primary center section functions could be panel mounted on leads for the most part, but a nice board with extra functions would be very nice as well. I have laid out these functions as my "wants":
1. master fader for Bus 1/2
2. master fader for bus 3/4
3. bus 3/4 assign to 1/2 switch
4. solo summing amp
5. solo trim knob
6. Monitor source select with - bus 1/2 - bus 3/4 - solo - other
7. Alt speaker switch
8. Monitor level knob
10. buffered meter out that follows the source select
11. headphone amp
12. headphone level knob
13. headphone source select
14. monitor mono switch

Then I was thinking an Aux master card would be nice as well. Again, my "wants":

1. 4 IC summing amps (IC is not a dirty word!)
2. 4 aux master level knobs
3. Aux master solo's
4. 1 stereo input with bus assign

And finally a stereo channel card. this would be 2 stereo channels in the same space as a mono but with no aux's. So:

1. stereo fader
2. mute
3. solo
4. bus assign

So there would be two sets of those controls per "slot"

If someone wants talkback, that is actually already built in. The input stage can easily get 12db of gain and the fader buffer can get 30db. So now it's a mic level channel, just without 48v. So channel 12 can be your talk back channel with any dynamic mic.

These are my thought as I go through the entire build in my head. These three additional boards would be horizontal across the top of the mixer in my head (enlarging the case to a 4RU). Although some of the funtions can be handled by other kits (JLM for example) having them all coherently laid out seems very appealing. But then I think I am not sure that I want to make so many specialized boards. I need some feedback here. What do you guys think? What have you been planning for your master sections? Have you been planing them?

Then there are the issue's of DOA's and knobs.
Jens over at Eisen Audio is a good friend of mine and I have been picking his brain all along the way, while designing this thing. He has a DOA that sounds excellent, is totally unique, and would be awesome in this mixer. What doesn't make sense however, is him making, and me selling one at a time. We have talked about doing a standing group-buy type of structure based around block of 12 units. The price should work out to be very competitive for a professionally assembled DOA. This thing would not be a 2520 replacement in any other sense than the footprint. It is a different animal. I'll expand on that later.

Knobs are another thing that begins to add up, and I really prefer a good collet knob. I have some samples coming from PDI for gloss black wing knobs and I will keep you posted on those as well. I have worked with PDI before and they make a very slick looking knob that feels very nice. Again as a group-buy type scenario I may be able to get the price per knob to about 5$ for a 13mm black wing with nut cover and cap. I have also toyed with the idea of a custom aluminum knob but that is a big minimum number of pieces but could yield a very finished and unique look. I think the aluminum knobs would work out to about 3-4$ a piece and I would only really need to have maybe 300 pieces committed, which sounds like a lot but a 12 channel version of this mixer is 72 knobs, and that's not counting the center section.  Let me know if there is interest in these options or if you guys are happy with what is available already.

Hmmm the more I think about this the more I want to do a custom knob. Dammit

ok now back to all the things I have been neglecting

Don
 
Oh and I forgot to answer your question about summing. Yes, Jeff's summing board is still the summing solution of choice for the 2bus. If you plan on using the second bus on the new cards, then you will need a second summing amp.

Don
 
The only schematic I have is a very rough and scribbled on piece of paper. I will make a proper schematic in the next week or so and post it.

don
 
hey there nice to see progress here :)

you ask what we think about mixer layout. so heres my poor opinion:


on my wishlist would be an at leats 8bus group routing (like on classic split consoles) and insert points on each channel/group. one side EQs the other side dynamics. (i dont know how all the hybrid guys integrate the bunch of hardware without having the possibility to group things together).

aux is a "nice to have" - but its something you can do with hardware inserts on your DAW too - even if its not as comfortable as having an aux knobs and its a waste of converter I/Os. perhaps 2 mono + 2 stereo stereo aux sends/returns would be nice. for sure IC amp summing is a good thing at this point.

personally, i dont need a comprehensive mastering section... i run my console 2bus and DAW out to a switchable 3x in and 3x out passive volume controller. no need to have anything more these days.

 
Shipping from the PCB fab got screwed up and it is taking longer than expected to get the boards. the channel boards are here and I have some parts on the way to stuff a few and confirm they are all good. The input boards are currently be re-routed and should be here any day now. I'll post some picks once I have both boards.

Don
 
Looking very good Don!
Although I don't get where to buy part "Don't xxxx up" in europe.... ;D ;D ;D

Cheers,

Udo ;)
P.S.: I wonder if my three existing 8- channel boards will be usefull somehow now.....
 
They absolutely will. The channel boards  can be wired off of those, but the new input boards have the added feature of doubling as a backplane. I am going to get to work on stuffing these, creating documentation, and laying out a very simple master board this weekend Nd next week. Once I am satisfied they work as designed, then I will start shipping them.

Don
 
hakanai said:
They absolutely will. The channel boards  can be wired off of those
That's what I wanted to know,thanks a lot Don!
Schematics would be nice to have,will wait for the documentation now.
I have quite a lot of gar2520s sitting here waiting for a home,hahaha.....

Chers,

Udo.
 
Sorry for the lack of updates. I have been extremely busy both personally and professionally. I have to go out of town this week and normally that would mean more delays but I think the airplane time will give me a chance to draw a proper schematic and work on the aux master board. I have parts coming to stuff 8 channels of the current boards once I get back. That will allow me to test everything and make sure it does what it is supposed do.

don
 
THis sounds amazing. I'm curious though, are the 8 channel boards obsolete/incompatible with the new channel fader boards, basically only use the 4 channel boards now?

This sounds really sick,, I was thinking though for the channel cards and the question of having a DOA style input for the opamp vs. IC, aren't there DOA/IC opamp adapter pcb boards, so one could use an IC opamp if one wanted...,

Super stoked for this..
 
Winetree.. Those were what I was talking about, but I'm not sure though, cause Don said the Channel boards would use a DOA style opamp that's wasn't compatible with a 2520, if memory serves me right from earlier in this forum, so not sure if it will be that easy to swap out for an IC opamp.
 
Hello,

10 posts ago you can see a pic of the (final?) boards,looks like they are all-DOA now.
I can remember roughly that there was a talk to implement an ic-based amp on the channel boards using them as buffer amps/drivers for stuff like aux sends etc.,but I must say that I like it very much this way since you now have the choice.Jeffs new ic-based DOAs will fit perfectly if someone wants to go this way or save some money.On the other hand you can have an API-ish mixer if you stuff it with Gars,SLs or whatever 2520 amps.
A matter of taste I'd say (I prefer this way).

Cheers,

Udo ;)
 
Udo,

Totally agree with you, prefer to be able to use DOA for that stuff as well 

I was just unsure, since Don mentioned that the DOA he was thinking of wasn't 2520 compatible, so I was unsure if the 2520 style DOA to IC opamp adapter boards would or wouldn't be compatible as well.

Peace
Sean
 
Fuccimain said:
I was just unsure, since Don mentioned that the DOA he was thinking of wasn't 2520 compatible, so I was unsure if the 2520 style DOA to IC opamp adapter boards would or wouldn't be compatible as well.

I think you misunderstanding something I wrote. I think what you are referring to is when I spoke of a possible DOA I was thinking of using/offering not being 2520 in terms of sound. It would still be the standard footprint, and that is what is on the boards.

Just a quick clarification.

I'll be back with the promised schematic, and hopefully some photos of stuffed boards, soon.

Don
 

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