5532 IC - BRAND's, Suffix/Prefix, Differences

[khstudio]

OK, they're used everywhere & if you've done any critical listening or comparisons against different manufacturers/Brands they're NOT created equal. Not to mention, very hard to beat. I've listened to A LOT of the recommended "upgrades" only to come back.

Brands: TI, Signetics, JRC
And their suffixes/prefixes: NE, none - NE, p, ap, d & sooooooooo on...

I have been killing myself listening to the differences of the above list & there almost as individual as a totally different chip
Believe it or not I've found the Plain 5532d (JRC) to sound great, even in my guitar pedals. I can't say they're the best at everything though but when it comes to "Feeling the music & moving some air, they definitely do it better than the others.

I started this thread so that others could share their experiences.
My (almost) final conclusion is that there seems to be trade-offs:
the TI chip was cleaner than most, especially the (ap) over the (p) but the overall dynamics sounded pushed forward/flattened a little & the lows & mids wasn't even close to being as 'Real" sounding or have the depth of the JRC.

TI had nice high mids & highs.

The Signetics is VERY good, kinda in between but not... The mids on these might be unstoppable, high end very good as well.

Now the JRC's lacked a little on the high-end, so...


Even though all the chips shined in certain areas, they didn't sound as dynamic or real to me. It was like I was listening to the music & with the JRC's I was feeling it... not to mention the instruments were more lifelike & had energy. Maybe even a LITTLE grit/color. Drums, Guitars & bass just sounded right.

Does anyone hear this or have anything to add?

I hope we can focus on the topic more than all the other chips that are "better than" the 5532... Although, I think it would be great to have a good list of upgrade options that are KNOWN to work & not be circuit nightmares.

Here we go. weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

:green:

 

[khstudio]

does anyone know where I can buy the JRC 5532d or JRC 2114.
The 2114 is supposed to be nice but I've never heard it.

Or the Signetics NE5532?

I'd like to have more of each.

 

[CJ]

Did you have a Phillips to listen to?

Good work!
I was wondering about this the other day while I was staring at my SSL comp board, with all those 5532 slots on there.

You can really take this further, if you had money and were retired.
Try the 5532 against B/B stuff, etc.

 

[rodabod]

I was still buying Philips 5532s recently because some of the quieter retailers in the UK have fairly old stock.

I recently got some TI ones with either the "D" or "AN" suffix - I can't remember which. I'll maybe compare some time, although I doubt I'll notice much. I'd only trust myself in a blind a/b test with quick switching.

I'd like to hear an a/b against some of the BB stuff like CJ said, eg. the OPA604. I have done this myself and I thought the 604 was maybe more "HiFi" sounding, although my a/b was slow and unscientific!

 

[khstudio]

Mine have the big "S" on them... only have 3, better than none.

BB, yea, I've tried a few of them - 2604, op275, 2134.
2134 too clean &/or sterile/FLAT sounding to me.
2604 - very nice but tricky.
op275 - very round & smooth, not good all around IMO.

Now this was in a circuit designed for the 5532 & from what I've found there seems to be a few cool options hiden within the line itself.
I'm sure the other chips would/could shine in a circuit designed for them & there seems to be a few out there but my main point here is the 5532's are GREAT but the Brands are not equal.

Some people look at the specs or just listen to high end & say "wow its brighter or clearer in the highs" & think its better but to me it sounds as though the low end or dynamics in general are being controled to give a cleaner high end or less distortion while taking away from the feel & depth. Yea, there's a little grit in the JRC's high mids or so but it sound musical. When I close my eyes I could sink into it where the others couldn't do that... even the Signetics. Could be the circuit but I doubt it. The left / right imaging was also the widest with the JRC.

 

[tony dB]

I have an 8 channel gtrsplitter, also using JRC components.
Where can you find these?

 

[Brian Roth]

Mouser:

http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&lstdispproductid=234469&e_categoryid=268&e_pcodeid=51309

Bri

 

[khstudio]

Is there any difference at all between JRC & NJR or are they the same.

If you search Google, there's a guy named Monte P McGuire... I don't know who he is but he seems to know a lot about IC's and more. Anyway, I don't trust everyone but when I was chip testing last year & over the past few weeks, I searched to see what people said or thought to get diverse opinions. After my testing this time I came to the conclusion I liked the JRC's & remember reading a specific quote about the JRC's... here's what he wrote:

Even though it's not a popular opinion these days, I still like the
5532 a lot and find that in the right circuit, it can sound really
really nice. Noise wise, it's also unbeatable for certain medium
impedance circuits like summing stages and fader buffers.

A common 'problem circuit' is the stereo summing amp of a large
console... this circuit runs the op amp at pretty high gain when you
have a lot of channels assigned. Many consoles use a 5532 or 5534
there mostly because of its fine noise specs. I don't have a lot of
experience with good replacements in that circuit, but an LT1028 could
be nice, if a bit noisier. An AD797 is also worth a try. You will
get greater noise and perhaps some DC offset problems, but try it and
see if this is a real problem or something that won't matter.

The biggest problem with 5532 and 5534 is that every chip maker has a
version of it and not all of them are that good. Supposedly the TI
versions are not so great, the Signetics / Philips and the Raytheon
versions are supposedly OK and the SSM2134 and 2135 are good upgraded
replacements, but I'm not sure they're still available. The extremely
difficult to find JRC2114 is supposed to be a better chip than the
5532 as well, although there's no 5534 replacement from JRC.

If you have access to a high resolution distortion analyzer, the
simplest thing to do is to try out a few different makes of 5532 in
those high gain circuits and see which work out the best. Look for
the absense of high order harmonics and low levels of 2nd and 3rd
harmonic. A marginally stable op amp can put out lots of high order
hash even when it appears not to be oscillating. Also do the finger
test to make sure the amp's not buzzing away at several MHz.

Checking for outright oscillation with a scope is somewhat useful, but
it's error prone. For one, the capacitance of a scope probe can slug
an oscillating amp into stability, giving you a false negative result.
That capacitance can also tickle a normally stable circuit into
oscillation, depending on where you proble it. Finally, it's hard to
find an RF quality ground in many audio consoles, so the random radio
trash that's everywhere can masquerade as oscillation when it's really
just an improperly grounded scope probe picking up trash at RF
frequencies. I prefer to simply look at a distortion residual
spectrum, since it's a "minimal contact" way of evaluating the circuit
and it takes an awful lot into account.

The summary: if the 5532 really is dead, replace it with another 5532
of reputable manufacture, probably a Philips or Raytheon variety. If
you want to improve the console, replace TL071 with OPA132, TL072 with
OPA2132 and TL074 with OPA4132.

Good luck with the console!!

Monte McGuire
[email protected]

As of this writing, the best possible replacement chip is the new
LT1469CN8 from Linear Technology. It is a dual, low noise bipolar
input op amp that is remarkable in that it has extremely low
distortion, excellent output drive and a very high gain-bandwidth
product. It is unity gain stable and it can operate from high supply
voltages, so it is a simple drop in replacement. The only drawbacks
are cost and availability.

Some varieties of NE5532 will also perform very well, but not quite as
well as the LT1469. In my tests, the JRC 5532D from New Japan Radio
seems to perform consistently better than most 5532 flavors, and the
Fairchild units were fairly close. The Philips 5532 varieties did not
do so well distortion wise. The main advantage to the 5532 is price,
so I would recommend that chip only if funds are tight and it's hard
to find the LT1469. However, it will not produce the best possible
peformance.

The LT1364CN8 is also a reasonable amplifier, and if ultrasonic
distortion is of prime importance, this might be the best choice.
However, due to its high idling dissipation, it should be heatsinked,
especially when driving low impedance loads at high levels. Its
midband performance is not quite as good as the LT1469, so it is not
my first recommendation.

I have recommended some JFET amplifiers from Burr Brown in the past,
such as the OPA2132 and OPA2604. While these amplifiers do sound very
good, they are not quite as clean at very high frequencies as the 1469
or even the 5532, and I cannot recommend them anymore if cleanliness
is your goal. My opinion about these amplifiers changed after finding
ways to clean up the SSM 2015 stage, which I will discuss in the next
section. After that modification, it became clear that the dominant
source of HF distortion was the Burr Brown chip, and the differences
between the 1469 and 5532 became more noticeable too.
Monte McGuire
[email protected]

> What can I use for improvement over 5532s?

5532s aren't bad at all, if you get a good variety. The JRC 5532D
seems to be a nice version. mouser.com has them and they're dirt
cheap. You could try using different chips in there and seeing how
you like the sound of them, but it's going to be difficult to remain
objective.

The SSM 2135 might be better, the JRC 2114 should be better, but both
chips are pretty hard to find. People also seem to like the OP275,
but it's noisier and it generates more distortion at HF than a good
5532. More distortion might please you, but maybe not. The OPA2604
and 2132 are good sounding, but they have more HF distortion than a
good 5532 and double the noise in that circuit.

Audiophiles hate the 5532 because it makes a poor DAC buffer - it
distorts when you slam tons of 200KHz - 1MHz trash at it, and that's
what a DAC chip does. This doesn't happen in a console anywhere, so
these caveats don't apply. The problem is that modifiers tend to make
these blanket assertions that don't hold true all the time, and this
is one of them. There is no need to eliminate 553[24] chips from
quality audio gear as a matter of course, even if you expect good HF
performance.

I dare say you should do nothing unless you're prepared to A/B a pair
of boards (one modified, one stock) or at least apply some high grade
test gear to the problem. 5532 are rarely a problem, unless they are
misapplied.

>If I bought a bigger power supply could I use even higher quality ops?

Fortunately, the two issues are unrelated. A good supply is a good
thing, no matter what, so you might as well upgrade that.

Regards,

Monte McGuire
[email protected]

I did not want to take what he said too far out of context so I posted complete chunks. I also know that he's NOT hailing the 5532 as the BEST but up there. How is the LT1469 & can you still get them :?:

He mention the SSM2135 which I had in my console as the main fader booster for almost 2 years & although it has a slew rate of .9 avg. :shock: it still sounds great compared to a lot of the so called "BETTER" chips... go figure


I can honestly say I like something about most of the chips I mentioned but its the balance of how the frequencies react together to make MUSIC & the depth & imaging that goes along with it thats important.

I will add that ALL my testing, results & conclusions are mainly focused around summing & fader boosting on the main card of my 32 channel Soundtracs Topaz. Trust me when I tell you I'm detailed & balanced in my testing... giving every chip the benifit of the doubt.


I hope someone enjoyed this & at least learned something from it.
If youv've never listened to different brands of 5532's you should.


Kevin
KHStudio

 

[CJ]

Awesome resesearch! Just what I wanted to know.
cj

 

[khstudio]

Important Update :!:

I like AD Analog Devices chips a LOT & was on the phone with them yestarday asking about their upgrade or competitive chip to the 5532 & they just email me with a PDF att. of THEIR SSM5532 :shock: Its not out yet but on the way. How can I post it?

Very cool.

We are currently developing the TI version of the 5532. Yang Zhang will
be able to fill in on the release schedule.
Attached is the prelim datasheet for this part.
Regards,
Giampaolo

I not sure why they're copying the TI vers :? , maybe they got something up their sleeve. A few of the specs are slightly improved over even the best TI.

CJ, I'm not the best at all this stuff but I'll share what I can :thumb:

 

[fucanay]

Damn, and I just bought all TI chips for my SSLs. :?

Matt

 

[mnats]

although there's no 5534 replacement from JRC.

 

[khstudio]

[quote author="fucanay"]Damn, and I just bought all TI chips for my SSLs. :?

Matt[/quote]

Don't fret... if they're the "AP" vers your ok. They rank very well in my book. Keep in mind the circuit aroud the chip has a lot to do with it & the job it has to do. I'm being really critical in my situation because the chips are summing & fader boosting my Sub-Groups & L/R MAIN output of a 32 channel console.

I will soon be testing the differences in my 2 SSL's :wink:

 

[khstudio]

[quote author="mnats"]

although there's no 5534 replacement from JRC.

[/quote]


Hey, you stole my chips

They're the ones :green:

Are they the new NJM (New Japan Radio) versions?

EDIT - I just noticed they're 553444444444444444444's

Where can you get those :?: :?: :?:

 

[Kev]

Thanks Mnats

good to see someone has their eyes open
:thumb:

 

[mnats]

EDIT - I just noticed they're 553444444444444444444's

Where can you get those :?: :?: :?:

They are impossible to find and naturally they sound better than any known versions of the 5534 :roll:

 

[khstudio]

That Sucks
I guess you have some... where did you find?

& Does the NEW NJM/JRC chips say JRC on them?

 

[khstudio]

I've owned a Nightpro EQ3-D for a few years now & always liked how it sounded... just opened it up & it uses the JRC5532d's on ALL the low & mid bands = SUB, 40hz, 160hz & 650hz but it uses th Signetics NE5532's on the highs 2.5k & the switchable AIR Band = 2.5k, 5k, 10k, 20k & 40k. :shock:


Also, Today was my 3'd day or so of listening to the different 5532's in my board & once again the JRC's just sound more "ALIVE"

They're my final choice & going back in NOW!

I hope you guys can do some tesing & give some more feedback. :thumb:

 

[clintrubber]

I just noticed they're 553444444444444444444's

Where can you get those :?: :?: :?:

Try some of these :twisted:

 

[khstudio]

:? What are they & are they any good?