a alternative way (LM334)

[Analog_Fan]

browsing the eagle libraries, i found this part: LM334

since the long tail often contains a current mirror, would the lm334 full fill that job?

it seams inside ic's when a current mirror is needed, in reality it's a 4th, 5th or Xth leg on the same transistor.

 

[user 37518]

I don't even know what you are trying to do or accomplish, a current source at the emitters works as a constant current source to bias the differential pair, adding a current mirror at the collectors serves as an active load and balances the currents at the collectors, this current mirror replaces the collector resistors, but what you seem to attempt to be doing: adding a single current source at the collectors along with the colector resistors is pointless, and even might be detrimental, why or what are you trying to accomplish with this? an alternative way to what? what is better than the regular way? Seriously, again, I don't want to be rude, but you are just guessing without a compass, I advice you to go back to the basics, you can waste a lot of time just throwing around random punches or you can read, learn, and experiment.

 

[Analog_Fan]

I don't even know what you are trying to do or accomplish, a current source at the emitters works as a constant current source to bias the differential pair, adding a current mirror at the collectors serves as an active load and balances the currents at the collectors, this current mirror replaces the collector resistors, but what you seem to attempt to be doing: adding a single current source at the collectors along with the colector resistors is pointless, and even might be detrimental, why or what are you trying to accomplish with this? an alternative way to what? what is better than the regular way? Seriously, again, I don't want to be rude, but you are just guessing without a compass, I advice you to go back to the basics, you can waste a lot of time just throwing around random punches or you can read, learn, and experiment.

nothing i just was searching for the lm311 and came across this ic and remembered sentences from that video.

i know someone that works close to 2 years on a single design, before it reaches the market.
most the of things are pretty much standard.

 

[ccaudle]

since the long tail often contains a current mirror, would the lm334 full fill that job?

No, a current source is not a current mirror. The LM334 could replace the single transistor connected to the emitters of the long-tail pair.

 

[Analog_Fan]

I don't even know what you are trying to do or accomplish, a current source at the emitters works as a constant current source to bias the differential pair, adding a current mirror at the collectors serves as an active load and balances the currents at the collectors, this current mirror replaces the collector resistors, but what you seem to attempt to be doing: adding a single current source at the collectors along with the colector resistors is pointless, and even might be detrimental, why or what are you trying to accomplish with this? an alternative way to what? what is better than the regular way? Seriously, again, I don't want to be rude, but you are just guessing without a compass, I advice you to go back to the basics, you can waste a lot of time just throwing around random punches or you can read, learn, and experiment.

Apart from the Make Noise STO VCO, Make Noise Maths and a VCA by frequency central everything else is made by me and it looks commercial.
All thing i made are better the Roland, Buchla or Korg originally made, but they could skip parts to save on costs and production time, i added them.

 

[Analog_Fan]

No, a current source is not a current mirror. The LM334 could replace the single transistor connected to the emitters of the long-tail pair.

that's what the datasheet shows, something similar.

 

[user 37518]

that's what the datasheet shows, something similar.

No, its not something similar, a current mirror is not the same as a simple current source. A current mirror 'mirrors' the current from one transistor to the other.

We are honestly trying to give you good advice, but you refuse to take it, you just want to guess around and expect us to give feedback on you ideas, which have no basis, after repeatedly telling you that you need to study the circuits. JR, Abbey, NewMarket, myself and others have told you this several times. We are happy to help, but if you are not willing to put in the effort and actually study and take the advice we offer, then there is no point.

I get that you are excited, and that you are learning. But you do not know the basics and you are guessing, its ok to guess, for a while, not every time.

 

[Analog_Fan]

No, its not something similar, a current mirror is not the same as a simple current source. A current mirror 'mirrors' the current from one transistor to the other.

We are honestly trying to give you good advice, but you refuse to take it, you just want to guess around and expect us to give feedback on you ideas, which have no basis, after repeatedly telling you that you need to study the circuits. JR, Abbey, NewMarket, myself and others have told you this several times. We are happy to help, but if you are not willing to put in the effort and actually study and take the advice we offer, then there is no point.

I get that you are excited, and that you are learning. But you do not know the basics and you are guessing, its ok to guess, for a while, not every time.

you must have understood me wrong or i gave the wrong impressing.
the datasheet shows a ramp generator and CCaudle might be right, that you can use it a current sink.

Constantly trying to improve the tings i made in the past, desoldering from a pcb is not a fun job, removing the part is one thing, getting a new in is another thing.
: )

logic circuit on a breadboad work (somewhat), but analog stuff. prety hard to get resistors, trannies, ceramic on them without bending legs.
i have these cheaper breadboards and a cheap multi meter for now.
This summer i wanna do something aside from electronics.

 

[Analog_Fan]

No, its not something similar, a current mirror is not the same as a simple current source. A current mirror 'mirrors' the current from one transistor to the other.

We are honestly trying to give you good advice, but you refuse to take it, you just want to guess around and expect us to give feedback on you ideas, which have no basis, after repeatedly telling you that you need to study the circuits. JR, Abbey, NewMarket, myself and others have told you this several times. We are happy to help, but if you are not willing to put in the effort and actually study and take the advice we offer, then there is no point.

I get that you are excited, and that you are learning. But you do not know the basics and you are guessing, its ok to guess, for a while, not every time.

I'm busy with electronics for the past 13/14 years, off and on, i started to use a simulator some 3 months ago.
the faltad simulator shows me the flow of current a bitter than nothing at all.

 

[user 37518]

You

you must have understood me wrong or i gave the wrong impressing.
the datasheet shows a ramp generator and CCaudle might be right, that you can use it a current sink.

Constantly trying to improve the tings i made in the past, desoldering from a pcb is not a fun job, removing the part is one thing, getting a new in is another thing.
: )

logic circuit on a breadboad work (somewhat), but analog stuff. prety hard to get resistors, trannies, ceramic on them without bending legs.
i have these cheaper breadboards and a cheap multi meter for now.
This summer i wanna do something aside from electronics.

It doesn't matter, you don't need a current sink in the collectors, you need a current mirror.

 

[Analog_Fan]

You

It doesn't matter, you don't need a current sink in the collectors, you need a current mirror.

hehe, like i said, i found the element (component) by accident and/or it would it be usefull.

 

[Newmarket]

I don't even know what you are trying to do or accomplish, ...

This

 

[Analog_Fan]

You

It doesn't matter, you don't need a current sink in the collectors, you need a current mirror.

alternative Long tail simulation

in the end, after completing a routing task, i toke to time and did a try in the simulator.
it toke a while to dial in the resistors.

apparently it works without a current mirror.
but check out above the current sink transistor.

page 4 of Robert Pease's book: experts have no monopoly on good advice.
Pointing at himself.

I'm pretty sure you need the resistors, to have the swings on both legs separated.

The long tail i have been working (a long time) shows +/-1mA apart from the control voltage circuit.

 

[user 37518]

View attachment 94044

alternative Long tail simulation

in the end, after completing a routing task, i toke to time and did a try in the simulator.
it toke a while to dial in the resistors.

apparently it works without a current mirror.
but check out above the current sink transistor.

page 4 of Robert Pease's book: experts have no monopoly on good advice.
Pointing at himself.

I'm pretty sure you need the resistors, to have the swings on both legs separated.

The long tail i have been working (a long time) shows +/-1mA apart from the control voltage circuit.

Yes it works without a current mirror because you have resistors, that is exactly what I said to you, the current mirror replaces the resistors. The current mirror is an active load, that is the whole point, you either have the resistors or the current mirrors, not both. You just showed the input stage, now you are showing a complete circuit, a differential pair alone can be used with current mirror or resistors, not both. The current mirror provides larger gain whilst balancing the collector currents and reducing distortion, it also converts a differential output to a single ended output.

My suggestion: less time in the sim, more time reading.

All the best with your endeavors....

 

[Analog_Fan]

i choose the current mirror.

I'll buy the series of Robert Pease so far reading, but not really the info i'm searching for, lots' of old ic's, than the last: The Art of Electronics 3rd Edition 130€!

 

[user 37518]

i choose the current mirror.

I'll buy the series of Robert Pease so far reading, but not really the info i'm searching for, lots' of old ic's, than the last: The Art of Electronics 3rd Edition 130€!

You can get the Art of Electronics 2nd edition, it ia also great to learn and a lot cheaper

PS. you can buy the international edition for a very low price

 

[Analog_Fan]

You can get the Art of Electronics 2nd edition, it ia also great to learn and a lot cheaper

PS. you can buy the international edition for a very low price

i don't buy online, accept to the accounts i already, that is mouser and 1 or 2 small local shops.

the internet after a few decades is kinda old fashioned, obsolete is some kind of way (Facebook and CO and it's apps aren't your friend).
I buy what the local physical shops sells me, i provide a ISBN and they get it for me.

I'm mostly interested in (mos)FETs, transistors, inductors.
What does the 2nd edition have to offer?

 

[user 37518]

i don't buy online, accept to the accounts i already, that is mouser and 1 or 2 small local shops.

the internet after a few decades is kinda old fashioned, obsolete is some kind of way (Facebook and CO and it's apps aren't your friend).
I buy what the local physical shops sells me, i provide a ISBN and they get it for me.

I'm mostly interested in (mos)FETs, transistors, inductors.
What does the 2nd edition have to offer?

Well, since the 80s up to 2015, it was the only edition available, most of us learned from that version, it is very different from the 3rd edition which is not only updated but also covers different topics, I have both and I like both. I would say that for your needs it is perfect.
Search on ebay if you trust them...

 

[Newmarket]

I'm mostly interested in (mos)FETs, transistors, inductors.
What does the 2nd edition have to offer?

Not wanting to criticise but it sounds like your interests should be some degree of understanding of Ohm, Kirchoff, Thevenin etc...

 

[Analog_Fan]

i got Ohm's law aswel power covered, but not the others or when to apply them.

P = I² / R or P = R² / i or P = V · I.

calculating a frequency

1/(2 x PI · C · R) also works.

maybe they should open a threat with the Math formulas + drawings and when to use them and make it sticky.

than some circuit are tricky, like the Urei 1176 with parallel capacitors, transistors on different levels.