AMS Neve 1073 Sweeps

[Aaronrash]

Ahh,

AE is correct, turned out to be the converter. What strange is it show's ringing on a 100HZ square loopback. I guess digital converters can't deal with square waves

 

[Aaronrash]

Hey Everyone,

So I thought I would just let everyone know that I sold my EZ units and bought another AMS-1073 Reissue. The sound I was trying to get is finally back.

To everyone saying they would graph different, they didn't... In fact they graphed nearly identical. Pretty strange stuff. I am building another unit this time around to go with my AMS, I am etching exact copies of the cards from my AMS units and hand wiring them together with the AMS Neve transformers.

Thankfully this time around I have my own AMS unit around to compare and tweak to until I get the sound exactly spot on, as well as look for any other "Neve secrets"

It's been fun demystifying it.

 

[bruno2000]

Hey Everyone,

So I thought I would just let everyone know that I sold my EZ units and bought another AMS-1073 Reissue. The sound I was trying to get is finally back.

To everyone saying they would graph different, they didn't... In fact they graphed nearly identical. Pretty strange stuff. I am building another unit this time around to go with my AMS, I am etching exact copies of the cards from my AMS units and hand wiring them together with the AMS Neve transformers.

Thankfully this time around I have my own AMS unit around to compare and tweak to until I get the sound exactly spot on, as well as look for any other "Neve secrets"

It's been fun demystifying it.

Thanks for all of your work and $ investments.
Looking forward to "hearing" the results!
Best,
Bruno2000

 

[Aaronrash]

Here's a little bit of the process

 

[Aaronrash]

283

 

[Aaronrash]

I etched these all myself

 

[tommypiper]

Those look great, good luck!  Let us know how it comes out. 

BTW, I think the engineer from that Rupert story was actually Geoff Emerick, however he spells it… you know who I mean… Rupert describes him as one in a million with golden ears, or something like that.

I still think there was something not right with your EZ which when discovered would have fixed it… like the input transformer hookup, secondary connections or who knows.  Did your Neve tech confirm and test all the connections, secondary loadings and terminations?  Changes there would dramatically change the tone. 

CJ dissected old Neve Marinair inputs compared to current Carnhills -- they were not at all wound the same.  He's right that the input and output transformers (especially how they are connected and terminated) would be very likely to alter the character.

Anyway, I'm glad you're happy with your decision.

BTW, power supplies influence the sound too, what was your PSU?

I've worked on Pete Townsend's former 8036 Neve, populated with 1064s, and it absolutely did not have the "produced," "bright" sound you are describing.  It has the pure class A routing and amp modules (1272 and 1924 or so?).  It has been maintained by Geoff Tanner.  I've also worked on several 8068 Neves and relatives, including one in Nashville in a major studio.  They ALL SOUND DIFFERENT.  It depends on so many factors…  My favorite sounding one was an 8068 with the BA 440 amp sections, class A-B.

 

[Aaronrash]

Hi Tommy,

Yeah we spent nearly six months trying everything possible known to man...Remember that they started out stock how the kit comes, by the time I was done with them they were completely rebuilt with all the correct components. Surprisingly enough, the sound never changed, if it did, it was being masked by some other phenomenon. Sadly enough I got tired of it and moved on, I will never know.

But I'm sure they were fine because I sent vocal samples to AEridge, he also owns a EZ1073 and it sounded exactly the same. I've also heard other peoples EZ's and they sound good, they just don't sound like the AMS, not even similar there are massive differences. I'm not saying one sounds better than the other but they sure don't sound the same and I prefer the bright energetic enhanced sound of the AMS for vocals, that's all I do now at home.

Personally, every 10XX Class A module I've ever used added a silky sheen thing while really tightening up the low end. On sessions we would bring end vintage units by clients request and also use my AMS 1084's at the time and they all sounded close enough to not matter to me. It's the reason I was shocked by the EZ's, so much so that I had to chunck out serious change to get the sound implanted in my brain back. I'm screwed and can't live without it.

I want everyone to know I'm not knocking the EZ1073 they really are some kick ass pre's for the price, it just so happens they weren't for me.

Anyways... The AMS is running off a PSU I designed and built right now, it's not even racked yet. It's so expensive I could only get the unit at the time I am ordering the vintageking rack for it tomorrow. But a pair of all the AMS transformers for the new build also set me back pretty bad. I think it's pretty evident now to most people that I'm obsessed with Neve.

I will probably start a new thread documenting the build of my new units witch will be an exact copy of my AMS, if people are interested in it.

Here's the AMS TX that came in today... 

 

[Aaronrash]

Also got the EQL and Phase push buttons in. I gotta say... the ELMA dual concentrics feel incredible. I wish AMS didn't cut corners there.

 

[Aaronrash]

Lastly, here's what the finished product will look like. I'm having the cases manufactured right now. I decided to do the PSU externally in it's own separate rack.

 

[ruffrecords]

Hi Tommy,

Yeah we spent nearly six months trying everything possible known to man...Remember that they started out stock how the kit comes, by the time I was done with them they were completely rebuilt with all the correct components. Surprisingly enough, the sound never changed, if it did, it was being masked by some other phenomenon. Sadly enough I got tired of it and moved on, I will never know.

Which just goes to show how good a designer Rupert was. Extensive use of negative feedback made the performance of the circuit virtually immune to component vagaries.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Aaronrash]

I guess this is true? Or maybe another issue. Either way, the AMS 1073 and the EZ 1073 sound very different from each other. Yet they use the exact same components.

I think what contributes to the sound I like so much is the way the cards are hand wiring and layed out. The traces on the B cards are super fat. After lots of emails with Avedis, he was certain the sound is so different from layout changes, something he had to work around while designing the MA5.

Regardless, yeah Rupert is definitely a great designer.

 

[desol]

I'm wondering now about my EZ1290's?

With the EZ1290's, the person that offered the build was adamant about keeping the traces original and apparently you can see though
the holes when held up with the original cards. I noticed the original traces when I did the build.

Never compared mine to an AMS unit tho. I used all original input transformers and output transformers, components etc...on my build.

So all the AMS units (DPA, 1073, etc) sound the same, correct? Would be interesting to rent one and compare.

 

[tommypiper]

Aaron, are you getting the cases from Avedis?  Does he know where to get 1081-sized?

I agree the Neve circuits are robust and each have a character which will be somewhat consistent and survive no matter how set up… yet at the same time all the elements involved will effect tone and personality, as they would in any circuit, so something of a paradox.  I've learned nothing in the chain is truly "transparent."

I think I'm also at the point where if it sounds pretty good I stop fretting and tweaking and just get on with production.

What a mystery about yours!

Yes, definitely do a build thread!

 

[CJ]

was this link posted already?

http://ams-neve.com/sites/amsneve/files/images/EQ_Mag_0412neve1073review.pdf

 

[Aaronrash]

Yeah I read it from the Neve site a while back. It also talks about how much a pcb layout can make it sound completely different.

 

[Aaronrash]

Here's a update on the build. I'm pretty confident that these will sound 100% the same as my Reissue 1073. I've payed very close attention to wiring techniques as well as made sure the B Cards are all exactly the same.

 

[Aaronrash]

Sensitivity Switch

 

[Aaronrash]

Output TX. I stuck with the original C296

 

[Aaronrash]

HPF