And then the fight began . . .

[MicMaven]

Good Day DIY Mavens and wizards. Let us stipulate I have a lovely limited edition Martin HD-28v acoustic guitar with one-in-a-million tone. (I played a LOT of 'em before selecting one that sounds better than the rest.) Let us further stipulate I want to play it through my Fender Acoustasonic amplifier (no debates about the amp, please, as it was a gift from my lovely young bride ... and while I have survived sitting in live sets on 6th Street in Austin, Texas, I am NOT a professional.) Also stipulate I refuse to drill any holes in my instrument. Moreover, I am am extrremely frugal (i.e., cheap) and like to build ham radio and audio accessories with a moderate skill level. Shoot, even though I designed a couple of really simple circuits that got published in a major hobby magazine, and twice won an antenna design contest, I remain a mere novice, so please go easy on me. (I have more ambition than skill.)

I KNOW there are LOADS of commercially available microphones, pickups, and combinations available, and yet, I wish to make or assemble a simple, straightforward microphone or pickup on the cheap that would sound good with my amp and not nick or scratch my instrument.

Any traction? Thanks in advance for any suggestions that would connect my guitar with my amp and sound good. James

 

[pmfalcman]

You can make a simple pickup out of a piezo disc, which cost pennies, and through this preamp/buffer
https://www.jlielectronics.com/diy-accessories/p48-hi-z-piezo-buffer/connect it to your amp if it provides phantom power (48V).
If it doesn't you can use:
https://www.jlielectronics.com/diy-accessories/dual-hydrophone-pcb/It's basically the same buffer (hi impedance) circuit but powered differently. So you plug it not into the mic (xlr) input but into the instrument - 6,3 mm - jack input.
Moreover the buffer is dual channel so you can use two piezo pickups and place them so as to obtain best sound.
Build instructions to be found on Instructables:
https://www.instructables.com/member/DJJules/Jules is a great and very helpful guy.

As for the piezo element you can affix it with double-sided tape. There are safe/easy to remove, non-marking versions.

There is also Metal Marshmallow piezo mics: ready made and DIY (cheaper) versions:
https://metalmarshmallow.com/shop.php?query=@DIY
Michael Krzyzaniak, creator of the Marshmallow contact mic preamp/buffer tested (check his YT channel) the popular "Alex Rice piezo preamp", found in DYI versions as well as in several commercial products, and showed that it has really bad LF response.

I haven't tried these above, cannot vouch for either. I got the PCB for the hydrophone buffer/preamp but had no time to assemble it yet

 

[ubxf]

This also might be of interest
https://www.sixtus-pickups.com/flatpup is the DIY version

 

[drtechno]

Good Day DIY Mavens and wizards. Let us stipulate I have a lovely limited edition Martin HD-28v acoustic guitar with one-in-a-million tone. (I played a LOT of 'em before selecting one that sounds better than the rest.) Let us further stipulate I want to play it through my Fender Acoustasonic amplifier (no debates about the amp, please, as it was a gift from my lovely young bride ... and while I have survived sitting in live sets on 6th Street in Austin, Texas, I am NOT a professional.) Also stipulate I refuse to drill any holes in my instrument. Moreover, I am am extrremely frugal (i.e., cheap) and like to build ham radio and audio accessories with a moderate skill level. Shoot, even though I designed a couple of really simple circuits that got published in a major hobby magazine, and twice won an antenna design contest, I remain a mere novice, so please go easy on me. (I have more ambition than skill.)

I KNOW there are LOADS of commercially available microphones, pickups, and combinations available, and yet, I wish to make or assemble a simple, straightforward microphone or pickup on the cheap that would sound good with my amp and not nick or scratch my instrument.

Any traction? Thanks in advance for any suggestions that would connect my guitar with my amp and sound good. James

I would recommend a Seymour Duncan Woody.

 

[kingkorg]

Piezo has that unmistakable piezo sound, and won't actually catch the beautiful acoustics of any guitar. It has it's own place, and i like that sound for certain effect, but more or less any guitar will sound the same.

I haven't found a decent substitute for a condenser on 12th fret. I played once an Ibanez with piezo bar under the bridge, and widerange pickup in the hole where you could balance the sound between the two. It sounded awesome.

I've been thinking about a clip-on mic, but never got to it. Maybe something based on this, but way simpler, less cumbersome...

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/se-electronics-gm10?amp

However if feedback is an issue, piezo, or hole pickup would probably be the only solution.

 

[kingkorg]

I have also made this fullrange hexaphonic pickup for my DIY modded tele, using cheap aliexpress transformers, which are low impedance (140 ohm per coil) and went straight to opamps behind the pickup. Based on Roland's hexaphonic pickup schematic. You can just wire transformers in series, and send them straight to a buffer circuit. Hope the images make sense and give ideas. You can stick such a pickup in the hole.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/1553323747...IVLI0eWNRnm&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=SMS

 

[TwentyTrees]

I have also made this fullrange hexaphonic pickup for my DIY modded tele...

Ok, that is cool as hell! Bravo.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

James Taylor is known to use an ATM350 on his guitar.
Being very close to the soundboard, it's a compromise between a semi-distant condenser and a contact mic.

 

[k brown]

James Taylor is known to use an ATM350 on his guitar.
Being very close to the soundboard, it's a compromise between a semi-distant condenser and a contact mic.

Pretty good deals on it's predecessor, the ATM35, can often be had on eBay. Just be sure it includes the proper AT8532 power module. PMs for other AT mini-mics will work (they all have the same FET), but the 8532 has a more sophisticated circuit that can handle the higher SPLs of an instrument-mounted mic.

I think the only difference between the two models is, the ATM350 has improved RFI protection.

 

[MicMaven]

Thank you for the several prompt replies in various directions, I am reviewing and considering same. James

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Why not take an electret cardioid capsule like one of the Primo ones and make what's essentially a lav mic? I'm assuming if you want to do a custom pick up you something that goes on or in the instrument. Or some kind of contact mic should work. I'd make a clip-on mic with one of the Primo capsules myself.

Also +1 on what Kingkorg said. A piezo pickup will pick up vibrations and that's about it. That's how they work, and that's why they work with all kinds of strings, and the strings will vibrate in largely the same way on any guitar, so they'll all sound same-y. I personally use D'addario flats on my acoustic bass, but part of that is I'm too cheap and lazy to change the phosphor bronze strings regularly. Ultimately with an acoustic bass I'm gonna be drowned out if I play without an amp anyway.

 

[Tubetec]

Kingkorg,
Thats a really smart way to reuse those luckybag transformer coils ,
Was it a midi pickup you wanted to create initially ?
interested to know what it sounds like too .

Whats the core cross section ? I see a strat pole piece is around 5mm diameter and fits in there snugly .
Was a humbucking coil config possible with the 1:1 windings .

I know a few people who tried the Roland midi pickups over the years , there an amazing production tool in the right hands , horribly ugly lump on the face of the instrument though .

 

[MicMaven]

Why not take an electret cardioid capsule like one of the Primo ones and make what's essentially a lav mic? I'm assuming if you want to do a custom pick up you something that goes on or in the instrument. Or some kind of contact mic should work. I'd make a clip-on mic with one of the Primo capsules myself.

YES, you, KingKorg and pmfalckman most closely follow my original post. This is the sort of DIY notion I sort of anticipated. While I do not intend to look any gift horse in the mouth (or in any other anatomical feature, for that matter), some of the suggestions are "sound" but not particularly DIY in nature.

I have some Dean Markly, Seymour Duncan, and other sound hole pickups, which do not sound all that great and mount in ways that could damage the custom perfling inlay surrounding the soundhole. As a kid in the late 1960s, I stuck my Shure PE-53 Unidyne into the body, but I doubt it is a good idea having a microphone rumbling around inside the instrument. A condenser requires a power source, which I could build, and yet the deployment conundrum remains - how to attach it without injuring the finish or getting in the way whilst playing. Another member mentioned double-backed mounting tape, but I worry whether it is truly safe.

The Primo type lavalier size element comes closest to what I anticipated. A dyanmic cartridge would obviate a power source and matching network, but is generally larger and presumably even more difficult to deploy. Some condenser units require shielding - some put piezo elements in foil, but that would look pretty ugly taped to the instrument. The Audio-Technica models mentions make sense, but how to deploy them securely, safely, and conveniently out of the way whist playing. It is much easier to mount them on drums and wind instruments, etc.

I GET the point about piezo elements sounding homogeneous. I used to play a Martin D-16GTE - a single cut away dreadnought with an under-saddle piezo pickup and onboard EQ pre-amp. While it sounded OK - as you guys say, like a guitar with a piezo pickup. There are commercially produced models with both undersaddle piezo pickups AND electret capsules in the body, but they are not a low cost DIY solution. Parenthetically, most commercial models have strap end pins that double as quarter inch phone jacks. I am reluctant to replace the original end pin because it means drilling a larger hole for the pickup pin- jack. AND, one must talso enlarge the hold on his strap to accommodate the larger combo pin-jack. While I have a cheap leather punch, guitar shops NEVER have a suitable-size leather punch to modify the straps they sell - a ten dollar investment that would make them look really smart. Oh well, we canot fix everybody's problems . . .

So, several good suggestions, I sortra think the deployment conundrum remains. In any case, I TRULY APPRECAITE the gang looking over my shoulder and considering all of this. It is NOT an easy fix! James

 

[jeremynothman]

Why not just go for a small Omni mic? Piezo is better for reducing feedback, and a mix of piezo and Omni is better for finding a compromise, but if you aren’t playing too loudly, maybe just some Omni? They tend to work better than cardioid when close due to the lack of proximity effect.
I seem to remember a thread here about great cheap Omni capsules.

How do you feel about taping the mic into the guitar and replacing the body strap pin with a strap pin with a jack out? Shouldn’t be any permanent modification, nor structural change

 

[kingkorg]

Kingkorg,
Thats a really smart way to reuse those luckybag transformer coils ,
Was it a midi pickup you wanted to create initially ?
interested to know what it sounds like too .

Whats the core cross section ? I see a strat pole piece is around 5mm diameter and fits in there snugly .
Was a humbucking coil config possible with the 1:1 windings .

I know a few people who tried the Roland midi pickups over the years , there an amazing production tool in the right hands , horribly ugly lump on the face of the instrument though .

Could be used for midi with something like Roland VG99. However, never intended to use it like that, there is just some 90's nostalgia attached to it, and couple of sounds from that generation of Roland machines. I just wanted to avoid that ugly GR pickup system from Roland on my guitar.
Those Roland processors have amazing Strat, LP, 335 emulations that are just insanely accurate, especially for cleans. With all pickup combos. The issue is that Roland advertised these as synth machines, and all the patches and demos are flooded with spacial effects, choruses... If you just pick a clean guitar emulation and feed it into a real amp they sound indistinguishable from real guitar models in live setting.

Never measured cross-section, just saw polepieces fit and went for it. I was wondering myself if they could be wired in humbucking fashion, but even as singlecoils they didn't make much noise even with overdriven sound. Probably due to small number of windings and short path to buffer.

 

[MicMaven]

Why not just go for a small Omni mic?

I will have to try that, but I am concerned about feedback and the inherent inconvenience of a mic stand crowding me. I am contemplating playing, not recording. Having to sit in one place to assure consistent pick up would be very difficult for me. Sitting still is not one of my strong suits.

I suppose "small omni" means omnidirectional dynamic microphone. The amp has a dedicated XLR mic input without phantom power. Not a DIY solution and I would have to buy something because my dynamics are all cardiod pattern, and I believe I previously mentioned I am seriously frugal (i.e., cheap) - n'est c e pas?

How do you feel about taping the mic into the guitar and replacing the body strap pin with a strap pin with a jack out? Shouldn’t be any permanent modification, nor structural change

Ahem ... Objection, Your Orneriness. Asked and answered by previous testimony - additional testimony is merely cumulative.

Changing the end pin would require permanent modification of the instrument. Perhaps you missed my previous posts wherein I expressly announced concern over tape on the finish of a limited edition instrument, and not wanting to drill out the hole for a jack-type end pin. James

 

[Tubetec]

In this age of spurious RF noise all around us any extra advantage noise cancelling gives is good news
Maybe connecting the coils in series , one with reversed polarity would do it. or would that just end up canceling the wanted signal , Im not sure .

If your not willing to drill out the end pin jack , the soundhole is the only option for the output cable to exit ,
Its not all that pretty , but at least it leaves your instrument in original condition if you decide to remove it .


Above is an LRBaggs viola carpenter jack, perhaps they also make versions for larger string section instruments that might effectively clamp to an acoustic guitar body , Alternatively you could extend the connecting bars with metal PCB standoffs of the right lenght and thread .

I dont think putting in an endpin jack is going to hurt the value so much ,
I have a buddy who's a luthier , he stopped cutting holes in the sides of beautiful instruments to fit nasty preamps a long time ago , Baggs and Fishman do several styles of soundhole mounting pickup/mic blenders , they dont harm your instrument in any way , a removable velcro double sided tape holding the unit in place .
If youve spent a few grand on an instrument , whats a few hundred extra for a decent pickup system.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Magnetic pickups have a similar default to piezo types. They pick up the string vibration and nothing else, not a iota of the soundboard. Because they respond to a different vibrational mode, they have a sound that's different than piezos, but still lack the complexity of the soundboard.

 

[Tubetec]

I have to say Im still staring in wonder and amazement at Kingkorgs creation ,
The parts all fit just right !, even the pole piece spacings are perfect ,
You could easily stagger the height of the poles too if you wanted .

The transformers look like they can be got at around 50cents each ,
Does each coil have its own independant op amp section at the output ?

Did you happen to get a few of the boards made up ?
I know my luthier buddy will be very interested to find out more about it when I tell him ,
He did many custom transducer setups for customers over the years ,

A simple method like this using original pickup housings , to make the strat noiseless ,
is pure genius .

I'm wondering how it sounds on that beat up old Tele ,

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I have also made this fullrange hexaphonic pickup

I must admit I don't really understand how these coils are connected. Are you willing to post a schemo?
The impedance of each coil is quite low, and so probably the output level. How is noise?