Antagonist in Chief

[Recording Engineer]

The problem is that nothing I believe is really supported by modern Democrats. But some of it is by modern Republicans. Quite a lot, in fact.

So you right there, just said yourself, that your voting record has nothing to do with the ring-wing rhetoric you’ve been on now and been presenting here.

Name a state that has been run by a Republican majority for 20+ years and that is anywhere near as effed as California. Or NY. Or IL.

Well there are plenty for the majority for 20+ part and is concrete, but effed, and the amount there of, is in the eye of the beholder. Yours and mine probably aren’t the same, so the exercise would be pointless.

And the word you're looking for is "cite" not "sight."

You’re correct. It was overlooked. Thanks for being my editor in chief! See what I did there? Ha!

The problem here is that you simply cannot fathom that other people don't want the same outcomes that you seem to either want or are willing to tolerate (pretty much all CA policy of the last decade plus).

The problem is you can’t get past political rhetoric from either side to have some reasonable conversations. Just my opinion, just as you presented yours toward me.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

So you right there, just said yourself, that your voting record has nothing to do with the ring-wing rhetoric you’ve been on now and been presenting here.

You've lost me. My voting record is a combination of my growing from a naive and idealistic young man into a pragmatic adult with several more decades of life experience and the radical changes that have occurred in the policies and platform of the Democratic Party. Yet I retain my core beliefs that all people are created equal; that we have certain inalienable rights; that individualism trumps collectivism; that freedom of thought, speech, association should not be subject to limitation by government or any other entity; that power corrupts and tyranny is never far away (eternal vigilance is required to keep it at bay); that because of these things government must be limited.

What you consider to be "right wing rhetoric" is what I consider to be realistic observations filtered through my personal experience which includes decades of interaction with people from "the wilder sides" of the political arena (Berkeley, Santa Cruz, etc.).

Well there are plenty for the majority for 20+ part and is concrete, but effed, and the amount there of, is in the eye of the beholder. Yours and mine probably aren’t the same, so the exercise would be pointless.

But you cannot or will not name even one.

You’re correct. It was overlooked. Thanks for being my editor in chief! See what I did there? Ha!

My mother was a teacher and I was constantly (and gently) corrected while growing up. My Dad was a journalism major and did similar things with my written schoolwork. Now I find myself unable to tolerate bad grammar and syntax (including my own). Sorry for the pedantism.

The problem is you can’t get past political rhetoric from either side to have some reasonable conversations. Just my opinion, just as you presented yours toward me.

It isn't rhetoric to point out the problems and failings so they can be addressed in the bright sunlight of reason. I'm an engineer. That's how I operate. Look for problem, analyze problem, locate root causes, apply pragmatic fix, lather, rinse, repeat.

We can't have an open and honest discussion while some of us hide our true beliefs. In my opinion.

 

[pucho812]

A message to all those still supporting Trump: If you don't know who the sucker at the poker table is, it's probably you.

The evidence laid out in the filing, experts said, could build a legal case that Trump attorneys Evan Corcoran and Christina Bobb obstructed the government’s investigation, allegedly telling FBI agents and prosecutors that they had handed over all classified documents when in fact many remained in Trump’s possession.
Left unanswered were key questions that could determine Trump’s legal fate: Did he direct Corcoran and Bobb to mislead the government, either before or after the FBI raid of his Florida home and club?
**********
“Trump and his lawyers had months to find these documents,” she said. “The FBI was able to find them easily. It was in a desk, for goodness sake.”

Of course, it beggars belief that Trump himself couldn't find a bunch of files in his own desk. But I'm sure the loyal Trumpists will eat up whatever excuse the corpulent orange one conjures up.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/08/31/trump-lawyers-legal-jeopardy/

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. This includes people you may not like. It’s the cornerstone of the American legal system, something other countries do not exercise. But hey it’s in the wapo, lord knows they never get it wrong or lie.

 

[Recording Engineer]

https://leg.mt.gov/civic-education/facts/party-control/
We could continue this with every state, but already said it was pointless and why.

 

[Recording Engineer]

We can't have an open and honest discussion while some of us hide our true beliefs. In my opinion.

I see both sides of most everything to a fault, that’s my true beliefs.However, because of that, I also can very easily assess when a bit of truth is used as political rhetoric and eaten up and ran with.

I lean one way or the other, sure, depending from circumstance to circumstance, but it’s not nearly as black and white as the endless talking heads and their followers make it out to be.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. This includes people you may not like. It’s the cornerstone of the American legal system, something other countries do not exercise. But hey it’s in the wapo, lord knows they never get it wrong or lie.

The court of public opinion does not use the same rules as our court system. DOJ is coloring outside the lines with their leaks to media.

[edit - I think I read that an indictment is not expected until after the election in Nov so expect more of THIS. /edit]
JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

https://leg.mt.gov/civic-education/facts/party-control/
We could continue this with every state, but already said it was pointless and why.

You completely missed the point. Is MT a failed state like CA? No, it is not, despite a fair number of refugees from CA moving there in the past few years.

 

[Recording Engineer]

Transparency now! There will be riots in on streets! Congress members saying the same thing… Can’t have it both ways!

 

[Recording Engineer]

You completely missed the point. Is MT a failed state like CA? No, it is not, despite a fair number of refugees from CA moving there in the past few years.

You missed my point, twice… An “effed” or “failed state” is opinion, not concrete. And since opinions are like… Your point fails miserably and is nothing but political rhetoric since you can’t say it is just your opinion.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

I see both sides of most everything to a fault, that’s my true beliefs.However, because of that, I also can very easily assess when a bit of truth is used as political rhetoric and eaten up and ran with.

Perhaps so. I feel like my BS detector is well-tuned as well.

I lean one way or the other, sure, depending from circumstance to circumstance, but it’s not nearly as black and white as the endless talking heads and their followers make it out to be.

It sounds to me like you haven't resolved what your core beliefs actually are. Yes, much (most?) of life is lived in the great gray expanse. But in my view a person should develop and maintain a logically consistent personal philosophy by early adulthood. New experiences, good and bad, will at times shift those core beliefs or at least force a deep re-evaluation of them. That's a normal part of being a rational human. Of course not every situation will have an obviously right or good decision/outcome, but at least your principles can help evaluate and bound the decision space.

To me, a person who has no such guiding set of principles is wandering in the dark and susceptible to manipulation by others acting in bad faith to advance their own ends or power and influence. No one else can do it for you.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

You missed my point, twice… An “effed” or “failed state” is opinion, not concrete. And since opinions are like… Your point fails miserably and is nothing but political rhetoric since you can’t say it is just your opinion.

So days after mandating an end to ICE automobiles, CA is begging people not to plug in their EVs due to power generation shortages in the face of a typical summer heatwave. It is well known that no current plans exist to provide enough generation and distribution capacity to support 15-20M EVs by 2035. There are hundreds of similar examples of abject failure in CA due to unmitigated magic thinking by one party.

CA has (had) so much potential even in the 90s. But all of it has been squandered.

 

[Recording Engineer]

Haven’t resolved my core beliefs? Susceptible to manipulation? I use my core beliefs to help me determine my opinion for every circumstance and don’t use them as blanket political statements, as if it’s my religion.

It’s as if you asking me to share my voting history or beliefs is just trying to figure out an angle of attack.

 

[Recording Engineer]

So days after mandating an end to ICE automobiles, CA is begging people not to plug in their EVs due to power generation shortages in the face of a typical summer heatwave. It is well known that no current plans exist to provide enough generation and distribution capacity to support 15-20M EVs by 2035. There are hundreds of similar examples of abject failure in CA due to unmitigated magic thinking by one party.

CA has (had) so much potential even in the 90s. But all of it has been squandered.

Your opinion continues and continues to prove my point.

By the way, regarding your example, I already said what I think of CARB. This latest unreasonable mandate by them continues to firm up my opinion.

 

[Matador]

We could continue this with every state, but already said it was pointless and why.

"Failed" is just short for "a state where a conservative doesn't want to live".

Of course total debt is somewhat meaningless, because CA also has a sizable chunk of the total population of the US (roughly 10%), yet contributes almost 15% of the national GDP...you know, failed.

If you factor state debt per-capita as a percentage of state GDP (in other words, if you make a fair comparison), then the top 5 debt per capita states are New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Illinois, and Alaska. These 5 states alone contribute nearly 30% of the national GDP.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Your opinion continues and continues to prove my point.

By the way, regarding your example, I already said what I think of CARB. This latest unreasonable mandate by them continues to firm up my opinion.

Great. What did you do about it as a voter? It sounds like you voted for a 3rd party which, while it might feel good to give the finger to the major parties, does nothing to move the ball back the way it needs to go. Hence my emphasis on pragmatism. You can't just complain and then not take effective action to change things. But I'm sure you'll continue to assail me as some evil actor will ill intent which also makes no difference in the situation.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Haven’t resolved my core beliefs? Susceptible to manipulation? I use my core beliefs to help me determine my opinion for every circumstance and don’t use them as blanket political statements, as if it’s my religion.

I said that my impression based on your statements was that you hadn't resolved your core beliefs. It's my opinion. You're welcome to enlighten me or not. Your choice. I also think you missed my point about the personal philosophy/core principles in your anger. I never said anything about blanket statements. But there are some undeniable truths in the world, IMO.

It’s as if you asking me to share my voting history or beliefs is just trying to figure out an angle of attack.

It is not. I'm not trying to attack you, just understand where you're coming from. If you don't want to share any of that, fine. We have nothing more to discuss. It isn't useful to argue with someone who cannot express their core beliefs and how they came to have them.

 

[Recording Engineer]

From what I can tell, you’re saying there’s nothing more to discuss if I’m not willing to tell you which party I voted with on issues. If so, you’re right. No more to discuss then. I said some time ago that I’m not playing your game.

 

[pucho812]

So days after mandating an end to ICE automobiles, CA is begging people not to plug in their EVs due to power generation shortages in the face of a typical summer heatwave. It is well known that no current plans exist to provide enough generation and distribution capacity to support 15-20M EVs by 2035. There are hundreds of similar examples of abject failure in CA due to unmitigated magic thinking by one party.

CA has (had) so much potential even in the 90s. But all of it has been squandered.

but wait there is more. I read that Californias water distribution loses over two hundred million gallons of water each year due to poorly maintained infrastructure, leaking pipes. The amount lost every year could supply enough water to cover all of l.a. for an entire year without any water restrictions.

 

[hodad]

So is this thread now "The California Antagonists in Chief?" And have pucho and AP taken it upon themselves to become the chief antagonizers of the state of California?

In the meantime:
Trump's crazy defense team presented their case to Judge Cannon today, and as far as I can tell tried to claim that it is illegal to search a home when law enforcement has a signed and valid warrant. That's some heady stuff right there. I guess it's time to start crimin', because John Law is no longer allowed to search my home!!!


P.S. Nothing to see here. Move along:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2022/09/01/ginni-thomas-wisconsin-bernier-tauchen/

 

[JohnRoberts]

So is this thread now "The California Antagonists in Chief?" And have pucho and AP taken it upon themselves to become the chief antagonizers of the state of California?

huh? I have been critical of lala land, its easy to find fault.

The state is big enough that it could justify being cut up into two or three smaller states partitioned to better represent the different citizens. The farmers and rural citizens of the central valley (country mice) have way different interests than Sacramento (city mice). CA is large enough to have their own flyover citizens who feel underrepresented.

In the meantime:
Trump's crazy defense team presented their case to Judge Cannon today, and as far as I can tell tried to claim that it is illegal to search a home when law enforcement has a signed and valid warrant. That's some heady stuff right there. I guess it's time to start crimin', because John Law is no longer allowed to search my home!!!

that should make you team's job much easier... congrats

P.S. Nothing to see here. Move along:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2022/09/01/ginni-thomas-wisconsin-bernier-tauchen/

They are competing with the NYT to be the official showcase for democratic leaks.

Jeff Bezos needs to keep himself busy.

JR