API-Sowter Transformers

[kruz]

cinemag group order???
:green:

 

[CJ]

That's funny!

 

[tonymite]

so does anyone have schematic for the 1st vintage 2520 op-amp ?? apparently there are 5 different versions all sounding different

 

[CJ]

i think its around, but someone told me that its 2 to 10 if we get caught with it on the forum so you might have to go sub surface to dig it up.

 

[tonymite]

[quote author="CJ"]i think its around, but someone told me that its 2 to 10 if we get caught with it on the forum so you might have to go sub surface to dig it up.[/quote]

this applies strictly for the vintage one - or for all revisions ???

 

[Sammas]

Why Tonymite? Do you and your cousin Malkjos want to clone it and try and pawn it off on ebay?

 

[tonymite]

[quote author="Sammas"]Why Tonymite? Do you and your cousin Malkjos want to clone it and try and pawn it off on ebay?[/quote]

nah ... gonna be knocking off transformers only like Sowter and CinaMeg. If I were to do so I'd probably leave out the study room and put a powder room in place of the walk in 'robe. I'd like to call that a Melclore but if my wife nags me for the study and the walk in robe again... I'd have to call it an API again. Brent Averill came to me in a dream once ... then i discovered that that it must be my memory re-shuffling and that I must had seen the name somwhere ... possibly whn i did a search for "Maker of Neve/API Clones and other cool stuff" and this page had come up:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=304
along with:
BUSINESS LINKS:

http://www.phoenixaudio.net/
Pheonic Audio - Neve Dudes...

http://www.auroraaudio.net
Aurora Audio - Home of Neve Guru Geoff Tanner

http://www.seventhcirclestudios.com/SCA/SCA.htm
Seventh Circle Audio - Home of the SCA 72 Neve Mic Pre Kit


http://www.ams-neve.com/
AMS-Neve - Current Neve --- as to previous neve ???

I'm sure I've come across others like Vintage King, Great River, Wunder, Vintech, Studio Electronics, Dan Alexander ...

I like how on Brent Averill's site it says:

1073 & 1084 Modules for Racks
and for vintage Neve?* Consoles then it goes like:

These are authentic reproductions of vintage Neve?* 1073 and 1084 console modules. They fit our racks for vintage Neve?* modules as well as fitting into vintage Neve?* A series consoles.


and for Brent Averill 1272 Class A Mic Preamps:

Same Class A preamp as Neve?* 1073 equalizer/preamp modules

I always thought the 1290 was 3 gain stages and was never intended as a Mic=Pre

Maybe once you start getting in on the Neve and the API u get a little confused ... I noticed ... they aren't using 2520 op-amps ... I wonder if it's due to legal issues ... ??? they snuck a 312 in BAE 312A has that API 312 flavour to it ...

I'm boored.







Made from an authentic reproduction of a Neve?* 1272 module

 

[Tillmann]

The thread that just WON'T die!!! Anyone compared the Sowter 9820 with the original 2622 yet?

 

[Purusha]

Probably has been discussed before... but anyway, is the 312 pre any good for vocals and distortion guitars or just for drums?

 

[Tillmann]

There are PLENTY of people that use them for guitars and vocals. It just depends on taste and what you're doing. The different revisions of transformers and opamps also sound very different, so it's hard to say. It depends on what entire circuit is like.

SO.... anyone compared the new Sowters to the original 2622??? :grin:

T

 

[Purusha]

It makes sense T :grin:

OK, in the mean time while we are waiting for the answer about the Sowter and 2622. :green: Has anyone tried Fabio's 2520 Opamps and his output transformers plus Cinemag CM-75101 on Baby Animal boards? This what I have ordered for two ch. pre. Should this be any good for new metal vocals and guitars? Otherwise you will see them very soon on the black market forum, ha ha :wink:

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Fabio's 252o are not out there yet. Only Fabio has heard them - I think they will be finished soon. I'm looking forward to building with mine - hopefully a few Eisen DIY 500 ,

Ruairi

 

[Tillmann]

Fabio did his own output transformers too or are they Lynx transformers? I did a search and saw what looked to be the beginnings of a group buy from a while back from Lynx but then I couldn't find anything more on it. What became of it? I'd be interested to know how the Lynx 1:7 input compares to the 2622 as well. Too bad I don't have a 2622. I'd just buy the Lynx and Sowter and tell y'all how they compare.

 

[Linus]

Alright...

SO...

Has ANYONE compared how the Sowter 9820 sounds to the API 2622 input transformer?

Thanks.

 

[khstudio]

I just got a pair of the Sowter 9820 & can't find any info about HOW they should (or shouldn't) be Loaded on the secondary.

Are they meant as a "Drop In" replacement in the API 312?

Meaning - Should the ZOBEL network be set up the same as the original 2622 TX???

I have spoke with a few guys that just use the original Zobel values & No secondary loading but it's never been mentioned ANYWHERE if the Sowter 9820 input TX needs different loading or compensation.

 

[CJ]

Here is the rusty ol Beta on the 2622 just for the heck of it.
Hah! Bibbin, what was I smokin that day, varnish?

 

[khstudio]

Killer!

I'm going to measure mine right now... but for one thing I'm noticing is the "Turns Ratio"... Sowers spec sheet on THEIR site says:

ratio 1:4.4 or 1:8.8

:?

This is confusing because on another web site (selling the same, possibly older version) says

150 or 600 /12kohm.
Ratio 1+1:3.54.

Pat said he just used the original Zobel but being that I'm anal, I just wanted to know because MOST transformers (clones or not) can be slightly different & would probably need different compensation because of it.
& usually the new manufacturers tell you HOW their TX's should be loaded... but I found no such info anywhere, at all!

Thanks CJ. :thumb:

I am going to try it stock just to hear but it doesn't hurt to ask. :green:

 

[mitsos]

[quote author="khstudio"]I just got a pair of the Sowter 9820 & can't find any info about HOW they should (or shouldn't) be Loaded on the secondary.

Are they meant as a "Drop In" replacement in the API 312?

Meaning - Should the ZOBEL network be set up the same as the original 2622 TX???

I have spoke with a few guys that just use the original Zobel values & No secondary loading but it's never been mentioned ANYWHERE if the Sowter 9820 input TX needs different loading or compensation.[/quote]
Best bet is to contact Sowter. They (or maybe our hosts) should be able to give you this info.

 

[CJ]

They made the pri inductances the same, instead of the turns.
This because you do not get the same henries per turn when you get further away from the core.
The linkage is not as good out there away from the center of the E core.

The reason the DCR is less for the most turns is because the split primary has one section with a way larger mean turn radius.



On a UTC twin coil type, they can make the turns and the inductances the same, this probably improves common mode noise rejection, I do not know.

This is the only transformer in my dissection files with the turns mis matched
on purpose.
And it was the second hardest to dissect, due to the nasty black epoxy that they used.
It was hard as a rock, and if you pulled to hard, the wire breaks.

The worst was the Langevin from Brazil, for the tube pre.
Nasty pine pitch type wax, and millions of turns of ultra fine wire.

 

[khstudio]

[quote author="CJ"]You can do a freq plot of the transformer out of circuit, see if it has a bad rise that needs squishing.
Don't bother with the bass, just sweep it from 10K to 100K.

If the Sowter has the same peak, put it back in the circuit and tweak the zobel values til you get a compromise between lost mid range and no major resonant peaks.

Here is the orig freq plot, out of circuit.
Sweep the Sowter and see if it matches.
If so, then just slap the stock network on there.

I think he tries to get the vintage stuff as close as time and materials permit.
Although sometimes he improves the iron if the original had stuff that could be made better.

[/quote]