Brexit

[ruffrecords]

Immigration is not the problem,; the problem is elitism .

Cheers

ian

 

[Script]

Flash Crash: some even think it was because a dude in South-East Asia confounded numbers when placing an order.

I don't hink there's more elitism today than at any time in the past/history. Today there's probably even less.

Anyway, I'm more interested in how pending Brexit affects people in real life. I remember there being talk about an ominous 10% of increase/decrease in all sorts of fields. Are there less immigrants coming now? How's the general mood in the UK? Etc. 

 

[sahib]

........The usual big Euro guns have come out saying they will punish the UK as a lesson to others thinking the same thing. That's one club I definitely do not want to belong to.

Cheers

Ian

If I am remembering correctly even an ex-prime minister of an EU member state said the "traitors would be punished harshly" before the referendum.

What happened?

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Brexit is moving on a schedule somewhat predicted by the rules. Germany and France need to be strict with the UK to preserve the rest of the union, and discourage others from leaving with no cost or penalty.

I believe the deep motivation is that the public opinion of France and Germany, but also of many other members, is fed up with the spoiled-child attitude of Great Britain, who have joined the "club" in greatly derogatory conditions (not adhering to Euro, rejecting free-circulation,...) and not lost an opportunity to diss other members, particularly France (an age-old art).  Remember Boris J. , then mayor of London, offering political asylum to French entrepreneurs?
I'm not saying "punishment" is a proper attitude, but it's what happens...

I wonder how much of this (Brexit) is fueled by the EU influx of ME migrants? The mass of migrants camped on the other side of the channel trying to get to the UK suggests it is a desirable destination. 

After the numerous interviews fimed on the subject, the main reason is these are english-speaking persons, so they go to the only English-speaking country in this part of the world.
I have discovered Croatia this summer; everybody speaks English there. It's a very modern country, the economy is growing, weather is beautiful, population is decreasing (birth-rate is the lowest in Europe); it should be a preferred destination for migrants; I guess the low presence of islam (about 50% are catholics) may be the reason it's not...

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Immigration is not the problem,; the problem is elitism .

Cheers

ian

Interesting thought...What do you mean?

 

[ruffrecords]

Interesting thought...What do you mean?

I mean the setting and implementing of policy by and for the benefit of a small minority (an elite)

Cheers

Ian

 

[madswitcher]

Just been watching David Starky's 'Monarchy' on TV regarding the Normans invading England and the aftermath of that

" England ruled over by the Barons and the Bishops".

Not much changed after 950 years.

Regards

Mike

 

[ruffrecords]

Just been watching David Starky's 'Monarchy' on TV regarding the Normans invading England and the aftermath of that

" England ruled over by the Barons and the Bishops".

Not much changed after 950 years.

Regards

Mike

It is a bit like cancer. You can have the chemo and go into remission but it usually comes back a gain. Last chemo we had was WWI which decimated the ruling aristocracy. Despite that we have had more Eton educated Prime Ministers since than than from any other background. May is at least making an attempt to let the Grammar School mob have a go. I like women in top political jobs. Clinton, May and Merkel would make a formidable team.

Cheers

Ian

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I mean the setting and implementing of policy by and for the benefit of a small minority (an elite)

Cheers

Ian

I was under the impression that Brexit was a political hijacking of a shared popular sentiment.

 

[Script]

I was under the impression that Brexit was a political hijacking of a shared popular sentiment.

You mean, Farage for instance being the son of a stock trader (and a bombastically paid representative of the UK in the EU parliament)? Yeah, I'd too count him to the elite.

--------------
But apart from that, what is the shared popular sentiment in the UK now? I really don't know and therefore have to guess.

- exporting companies benefit big time from a cheaper pound while it's become more difficult for importing companies?
- several people have already lost jobs cos companies start bracing?
- as a reaction, companies expand on hiring despatch workers?
- the dodgy deal by Madame A. Merkel with Turkey has dried the actual flow of migrants via the Balkan route and this shows in the number of migrants to the UK?
- real estate and housing prices have gone down making a purchase more affordable for more people?
- the general interest in politics among Brits is back to the same low (or an even worse) level as before the referendum?
- the unemployment rate has gone down?
- Brits have started to prefer going on holidays within the UK instead of going abroad?

Help me out...

 

[abbey road d enfer]

But apart from that, what is the shared popular sentiment in the UK now?

After a number of interviews on TV, many uneducated (but isn't it the case in most countries?) people in UK  blamed Europe, migrants, globalization (in no particular order). A bunch of populist politicians (a tautology) concluded that it would be good to concur with them in order to gain popularity and votes. Unfortunately they were caught at their own game; a perfect sorcerer's apprentice demonstration.
I would think the popular sentiment now is somewhat different than then.

 

[ruffrecords]

I find broad statements about popular sentiment rather pointless. It's a bit like saying most people like potatoes. Also, I find the term uneducated offensive and elitist.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Matt Nolan]

There is a thought shared by many that the Elites are doing their best to make sure more of the populus remain uneducated, or at least mis-educated, mis-informed, distracted...

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I find broad statements about popular sentiment rather pointless.

Is it really? IMO that's what fuels politicians.

  It's a bit like saying most people like potatoes.

Please read again. I didn't write that UK people are uneducated, I wrote "uneducated people in the UK". I believe it's quite different. 

Also, I find the term uneducated offensive and elitist. 

I don't think so. Some people being uneducated is just a fact of life. They're everywhere, and they're the prey of choice for populist politicians.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I find broad statements about popular sentiment rather pointless. It's a bit like saying most people like potatoes. Also, I find the term uneducated offensive and elitist.

Cheers

Ian

Safe space... ;D

Kind of by definition government is about "elite" representatives/leaders.

Elite is a term that originates from Latin eligere (“to choose, elect”). In political and sociological theory for a small group of powerful people that controls

We are all ignorant, some more so than others. "Uneducated" may be a hot button term. I do not have a college degree so I am literally uneducated.

I suspect the populist movement is reframing "elite" as a pejorative.

JR

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I do not have a college degree so I am literally uneducated.

Merriam-Webster's second entry for "educated":  giving evidence of training or practice.
I believe you belong to this category; many people I've seen in interviews don't.

 

[ruffrecords]

Is it really? IMO that's what fuels politicians.

I agree it fuels politicians. I still think it is pointless.

Please read again. I didn't write that UK people are uneducated, I wrote "uneducated people in the UK". I believe it's quite different.

You presume  the people interviewed were uneducated. How do you know that? Did they all give their educational CV as part of the interview? Education has been free in the UK for a long time. There are very few uneducated people in the UK. There are a lot of ill informed people many of whom are very well educated. Maybe that is what you meant?

Cheers

Ian

 

[JohnRoberts]

Not open up another conspiracy theory but..... some question what our children are being taught in public schools (especially history which seems a little too fluid for my taste).

Clearly not as bad as the Saudi funded madrassa (islamic schools) that teach Wahhabism and perpetuate hate in many middle eastern young people. 

JR

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I agree it fuels politicians. I still think it is pointless.You presume  the people interviewed were uneducated. How do you know that? Did they all give their educational CV as part of the interview? Education has been free in the UK for a long time. There are very few uneducated people in the UK. There are a lot of ill informed people many of whom are very well educated. Maybe that is what you meant?

OK; if educated means someone who actually went to school, there are not many in most EU countries, but I meant people who, when interviewed, make syntax, grammar and vocabulary mistakes in every other sentence and cannot justify their positions by any sort of logical process. I must admit, news are biased; they show that kind of people in priority.
There are many people who go to school and leave it uneducated.

 

[ramshackles]

I don't know if me offering my opinions on this is a good idea...but whatever!
So much discussion about economics, immigration and the hidden politics/agendas of the referendum and I know diddly squat about all that.
So I thought I'd offer my reasons for whole heartedly voting remain which have nothing to do with all that.
I'm English, my wife is French. We met while studying in Denmark, where I stayed for about 4 years. I'm pretty sure none of this would've happened if we had (already) been outside the EU. My vote was simply based on this sense of community and kinship, which I think is a great thing. A sense that we are/should be all equal, an appreciation of the myriad different cultures in the EU and a love of the fact that I can dip into these cultures and enjoy them, learn from them.
I could say loads more, but that is the basics and all that really matters....

I wish that the remain campaign had focussed more on these aspects - the morality/equality and principle of the EU. The lies, hate and nonsense from both sides was saddening...