I have a feeling Kinston's intention has not been well carried, not because of a language problem, but rather by the lack of a proper {irony} marker.ruffrecords said:
Brexit
- Thread starter ruffrecords
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What the voting public do, is tactical voting. Same in France when they vote for Le Pen.
Tactical voting cost May her majority when she called the last election. She thought it was still about Brexit but lots of voters decided to register their protest against Austerity (an attempt to balance the books) and For the free university fees promised by Corbyn (since retracted). These voters made it ten times harder for May to get Brexit through parliament.
Maybe the public need two votes, one just to register opinions and complaints and a real one to get things done.
I can't help agree with Rob, I know two British families living in France who voted for Brexit!! Turkeys voting for Christmas come to mind.
DaveP
Tactical voting cost May her majority when she called the last election. She thought it was still about Brexit but lots of voters decided to register their protest against Austerity (an attempt to balance the books) and For the free university fees promised by Corbyn (since retracted). These voters made it ten times harder for May to get Brexit through parliament.
Maybe the public need two votes, one just to register opinions and complaints and a real one to get things done.
I can't help agree with Rob, I know two British families living in France who voted for Brexit!! Turkeys voting for Christmas come to mind.
DaveP
ruffrecords
Well-known member
Banzai said:
Makes me chuckle - since the remaining of the EU nations will be paying it.
Cheers
Ian
rob_gould
Well-known member
DaveP said:
I've heard a few versions of this, but relating to expats and retirees on the Costa del Sol.
"Well, we voted for brexit but we didn't think it'd really affect us to be honest".
Absolutely bewildering.
The main issue there is that most people believe their vote is not gonna change a thing, so they use it to express their frustration.rob_gould said:
I gonna say something very unpopular, but add to that the vast majority of people (more than 90%) haven't got the faintest clue how party politics and the job of political compromise really work.
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More postponement dates flooding the airwaves. It would be interesting to see how many people actually vote in the case of the UK taking part in the EU elections. I'd guess some 50% -- haha
And they already had that in the UK.
The first was called 'legally non-binding referendum' -- the second 'general election'.
The self-inflicted 'democratic crisis' in the UK (if we can call it that at all) consists in these two having been mixed up and confounded.
A few more general, provocative thoughts:
(1)
We do not entertain politicians to serve us as individual people. The primary task of politicians is to compromise on how to run a country -- and we may not always like it.
(2)
Personally I do not care about types like Farage and how much pension money they will get. Who does care, really? -- But I would be disappointed should some more prominent politicians in the UK survive the next general election. Especially those who have clearly proven that they reject responsibility or base their political understanding on silly media stunts. These figures certainly won't do justice to UK 'democracy' and the alleged lack thereof that some people seem to sentiment and bemoan.
(3)
Parties may split over Brexit -- no real tragedy. Meanwhile people should have gotten more political over it all -- and that's a good process*
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*Only problem for UK politicians is that the remaining 27 EU menbers, including their Brussels apparatschiks, couldn't care less about it.
(1)
We do not entertain politicians to serve us as individual people. The primary task of politicians is to compromise on how to run a country -- and we may not always like it.
(2)
Personally I do not care about types like Farage and how much pension money they will get. Who does care, really? -- But I would be disappointed should some more prominent politicians in the UK survive the next general election. Especially those who have clearly proven that they reject responsibility or base their political understanding on silly media stunts. These figures certainly won't do justice to UK 'democracy' and the alleged lack thereof that some people seem to sentiment and bemoan.
(3)
Parties may split over Brexit -- no real tragedy. Meanwhile people should have gotten more political over it all -- and that's a good process*
-------
*Only problem for UK politicians is that the remaining 27 EU menbers, including their Brussels apparatschiks, couldn't care less about it.
I'm sure EU citizens would find it real funny if their taxes were used to pay Farage...ruffrecords said:
But good thing the EU is charging the UK £10B for your MEP pension payments. You'll be paying Farage from your own pocket, just like every other Brexit voting MEP.
The people footing the £10B bill?Script said:
ruffrecords
Well-known member
Looks like the UK is not alone in Europe in experiencing political turmoil. The elections in Spain on Sunday look set confound the pundits with 30% of voters reported to be undecided. The Sweden has its own problems with not being able to form a government following recent elections. It is beginning to look like disillusionment with Euro politicians is widespread.
Cheers
Ian
Cheers
Ian
L´Andratté
Well-known member
Don't take media's word (opinion) for anything... They promote FUD (fear, uncertainty, and despair) to scare people into watching/reading.ruffrecords said:
There has been an organized anarchist movement for decades, no doubt supported by anti-western authoritarian regimes to distract and weaken democratic governments in the west.
Don't help all the useful idiots by doing their dirty work for them. Social media almost makes it too easy for them, but hopefully we will figure that out sooner rather than later. Keeping us angry and arguing with each other instead of working together to solve common problems makes us weak providing them more opportunities for mischief.
Sorry if this seems off-topic, I am not so sure.
JR
rob_gould
Well-known member
JohnRoberts said:
I'd say it's entirely on topic.
I think I've written here before about the 'us and them' situations that are created in the British media. Left vs right, natives vs immigrants, christians vs muslims, tax payers vs benefits cheats, meat eaters vs vegans, car drivers vs cyclists. The list goes on and on and on.
I'm quite certain that these divisions are not created by accident. When the 'little' people are continuously being given reasons to fight with each other, no one's paying attention to what's happening high above our heads.
ruffrecords
Well-known member
Latest news feed from Italy about the up coming EU elections:
"Italy's populist interior minister is uniting Europe's right-wing parties under an anti-migrant, anti-Islam, anti-bureaucracy banner for this month's European Union elections, pledging to reshape the continent from its technocratic heart in the EU's base in Brussels."
May us Brits are not the only ones dissatisfied with Brussels.
Cheers
Ian
"Italy's populist interior minister is uniting Europe's right-wing parties under an anti-migrant, anti-Islam, anti-bureaucracy banner for this month's European Union elections, pledging to reshape the continent from its technocratic heart in the EU's base in Brussels."
May us Brits are not the only ones dissatisfied with Brussels.
Cheers
Ian
L´Andratté
Well-known member
Well, if you don´t mind bad company...
ruffrecords
Well-known member
L´Andratté said:Well, if you don´t mind bad company...
Indeed:
"Italy's hard-line interior minister, Matteo Salvini, leader of the anti-migrant League party, told a news conference in Milan that the goal of the new movement in the EU-wide elections next month was to "win and change Europe."
He was joined by representatives of populist parties from Germany, Finland and Denmark. At the top of their common agenda, the right-wing euroskeptics demanded a halt to all illegal migration, stronger European borders, restoring political sovereignty to EU nations and protecting what they called "European culture."
Cheers
Ian
I find the term "Populist" intriguing.
You might expect that the term should mean that certain politicians or policies are popular, which should be a good thing?
But the term seems to be associated with ordinary people who have inclinations that are no longer politically acceptable, like the death sentence for paedophiles for example. In this way it sets them apart from "Political Elites" who always seem to know what's best for us, better than we do ourselves apparently.
So is it an oxymoron, an apparent contradiction?
DaveP
You might expect that the term should mean that certain politicians or policies are popular, which should be a good thing?
But the term seems to be associated with ordinary people who have inclinations that are no longer politically acceptable, like the death sentence for paedophiles for example. In this way it sets them apart from "Political Elites" who always seem to know what's best for us, better than we do ourselves apparently.
So is it an oxymoron, an apparent contradiction?
DaveP
ruffrecords
Well-known member
DaveP said:
According to WifiP:
"In politics, populism refers to a range of approaches which emphasise the role of "the people" and often juxtapose this group against "the elite". There is no single definition of the term, which developed in the 19th century and has been used to mean various different things since that time"
So I think populism means those elected by the people do what the people ask them to do as opposed to the elite who do what they think is best for us.
Cheers
Ian
But it's the other way around. Populists tell people what they want to hear (line of least resistance) in order to get elected. Then, they end up doing what they want for their own interests, not for the good of the people who voted for them.ruffrecords said:
THe big problem is that populist leaders do not want to govern (most of them lack any serious competence in governing); they just want to have their small trade prospering., but today, most democratic safety barriers (education, information, speech control...) prevent them doing that successfully at the local, regional or even national level. However, they found that, due to the general lack of interest in European politics, there was an open boulevard for them to take advantage of the system.
