Budget "C12" capsules

[kingkorg]

This is 180 degree off axis response of
Purple = CT12
Yellow = RK12 (Rayking faux ck12) i just measured at my place. Literally the same body, circuit, grille...

It is pretty much the same thing for 90 degree response. So can you imagine the audible difference of anything coming from off-axis with almost +10db difference at 5k and 10k? Like reflection of the glass window placed in back of the microphone in a lot of studios?  Or cymbals? At high SPL?

I am just saying these are two different type capsules and i cant see the point of comparing the two...

 

[cyrano]

I'm sure Philips has sold microphones before, like back in the late 80's or 90's, if they're not doing it now. I can imagine Philips rebranding those Chinese OEM electret "shotgun" mics and other generic OEM dynamics and maybe some instrument mics as well.

Philips' pro mics were rebadged AKG and Beyer mics. The consumer electrets were made in-house until about 15 years ago. These days they're Chinese and the pro audio gear is gone. The "Philips" brand consumer audio isn't even owned by Philips anymore. Philips only has electric rasors and stuff like that left and components...

But, enough OT. CK12 is much more interesting.

 

[snigglepit]

There were some original Philips mic designs too, though I don't know whether they made their own capsules. The EL 6033/10 is a very interesting mic: a moving-coil dynamic that can be made omni or cardioid by twisting a ring at the base of the headbasket.

 

[Khron]

That kinda sounds like it might be similar to the Shure KSM141 system. The twistable ring at the bottom of the headbasket raises a cylinder inside that closes / seals the rear of the capsule. But we're veering off-topic here... ;D

There were some original Philips mic designs too, though I don't know whether they made their own capsules. The EL 6033/10 is a very interesting mic: a moving-coil dynamic that can be made omni or cardioid by twisting a ring at the base of the headbasket.

For what it's worth, i've made a few mics with Chinese "CK12" capsules (from Banzai's group-buy, a couple years ago). Can't say i recall what drilling pattern the backplates have, but i have run some sweeps and "relative"-d them against my calibrated measurement mic (sans the absolute SPL figures), and they don't look half-bad to me.

As can be seen on the left edge of the graph, it's 2dB per division. The bottom trace has 1/3rd octave smoothing applied (with 1/12 it's virtually identical to the others), the other two have 1/12 octave smoothing.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/blkhgb8eq0z07y9/Screenshot%202019-01-11%2020.06.30.png?dl=0

(Upload folder is allegedly full )

 

[cyrano]

There were some original Philips mic designs too, though I don't know whether they made their own capsules. The EL 6033/10 is a very interesting mic: a moving-coil dynamic that can be made omni or cardioid by twisting a ring at the base of the headbasket.

I think that 6033 was made by AKG too. Probably the contract between the two made it a Philips exclusive mic for the Pro market. I happen to have an AKG consumer mic that uses the same idea. I don't know if it's released before or after the 6033. It's also a wooden mic

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Apparently the Maiku capsule is tuned to be closer to the ELA M 251 sound.

Is anybody who has both capsules willing to do a quick sample or measurement?

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

I'm just gonna go with Maiku, waiting on a PayPal invoice so I can order a b stock capsule. If the invoice doesn't come then I'll either buy a capsule from someone on here who's selling one, or I'll just spring for a CT12. (I'll be waiting another paycheque for that though, that's pretty much a paycheque from my part time job right there, the price is equivalent to $500 Canadian, with taxes and shipping probably closer to $600 before any duties)

I actually just watched a comparison between the Peluso 414 and a vintage C414 and C12A and the Peluso couldn't even compete. It sounded so sibilant on the "s" sounds. The Chinese capsule in the video on the first page (don't knoe who makes it) sounds a lot more C12 like than the Peluso 414's caspule when compared to their respective inspirations.

https://youtu.be/o7hsA-DWn5k here's the video with the Peluso 414. It's noticeably harsher all over and especially sibilant on the "s" sounds which end up being both hissy and "esshy", and even some completely different sounds you wouldn't expect sound sibilant. I'm glad I didn't pick a Peluso CEK12, especially at a price of $250 USD. If you want something bright like that I honestly think you should just get a couple RK12s and two used donor mics and build a pair. Or better yet save for a CT12.

If Peluso just sold mic bodies and PCBs I'd buy that and throw a nicer CK12 capsule and make a nice C414 clone. But $850 for that mic isn't something I'd ever be willing to spend if I can just buy a used teflon C414 and throw in a nicer brass capsule. Investment would be more, but you'd get much closer to those brass capsule C414s that sell for like 4 grand on eBay.

 

[Tim Campbell]

Well I hope no one minds me posting this in this thread but I couldn't  figure out where else to post it since I don't have a white market thread. I've made some cosmetic changes to my capsule . The acrylic is now clear and threaded as the original.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Looks really nice Tim.

 

[granger.frederic]

a real masterpiece... 8)

 

[kingkorg]

Tim, i noticed there is marked front and rear side. Are they tuned differently?

What could one expect from using rear as cardioid for example.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Apparently iSK is making a new version of the 2B Beauty (TRM-11) tube mic with a better CK12 capsule. So that capsule may be a good option for DIY projects, though I haven't seen them for sale yet (and it might not even be a different capsule than the current tube mics, or of they'll be any different than Rayking's capsule).

 

[RPC360]

Tim, that is one lovely piece of craftsmanship! I like that it has the extra threaded holes for attaching the terminals (just like the original!). (It makes me nervous taking out a diaphragm screw to get a terminal under it...)
Kingkorg, don't forget that the front and back are different - different patterns on the rear backplates, plus only one plastic ring is threaded for the three screws that hold the halves together.

 

[Tim Campbell]

kingkorg I designate one half as front because that's the side I do my cardioid measurements from. I use the half with the 3  1.5mm screws simply because it's the same one AKG used as their forward facing side on all their CK12 models.

 

[kingkorg]

Thanks Tim!

Btw, talking about budget version of capsules one should not forget 3U Audio. Guosheng has made some remarkable capsules and mics. His 100 euro flat k67 made my jaw drop. I have no idea how he does it. He doesn't get nearly enough praise.

A lot of capsules of ''unknown'' origin are his work. Either design, or production. However he does not make true ck12 either.

Check this one out!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3U-Audio-Teal-CM1-Condenser-Microphone-For-Acoustic-Guitar-Vocals/112996573095?epid=1852552467&hash=item1a4f1edfa7:g:yTYAAOSw9NNa--WK:rk:1f:0

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Thanks Tim!

Btw, talking about budget version of capsules one should not forget 3U Audio. Guosheng has made some remarkable capsules and mics. His 100 euro flat k67 made my jaw drop. I have no idea how he does it. He doesn't get nearly enough praise.

A lot of capsules of ''unknown'' origin are his work. Either design, or production. However he does not make true ck12 either.

Check this one out!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3U-Audio-Teal-CM1-Condenser-Microphone-For-Acoustic-Guitar-Vocals/112996573095?epid=1852552467&hash=item1a4f1edfa7:g:yTYAAOSw9NNa--WK:rk:1f:0

Yeah he does amazing work. From what I've heard he used to work for 797 Audio so he has a ton of experience with tuning capsules and reproduction capsule design.  The CM1s (both models) are especially great considering they're only about $125 USD.

Does he sell a seperate K67 capsule for 100 euros? I haven't seen any actual capsules listed except for those fantastic CM100 SDC capsules.

 

[kingkorg]

Well i just asked him through ebay, and he sent me one. It was another member here who recommended it. It is called super smooth k67.  That one was cardioid only. Wonderful, high quality manufacturing.

 

[Ricardus]

I got a Rode NTK for free and had a friend (a better tech than me) replace the one-sided Rode capsule with the Peluso CEK-12.  I like the way the Peluso sounds. The best part of the deal was that the NTK uses the same PCBs in the mic and PSU as the K2 mic, so my NTK now has a pattern pot and it's basically a converted K2.

I need to do some more extensive testing with it. I'm looking for a vintage 6922 to put in it, but those are getting a little pricey.

 

[OPR]

Regarding the Rode and Chinese edge terminated capsules.

The drill patterns are similar with these two which have more in common with  K67 capsules rather than a ck12.
My cK12 is also in the pic as a reference being an accurate multi-chaimbered replica.

[edit] if you wish to market this to the group, make a post in black or white market [/edit]


Just thought I'd mention it if since we're talking about budget Ck12 options  ;D

 

[craigmorris74]

OPR, sorry to be slow, but which capsule is which in your pics?