[BUILD] 1176LN Rev D DIY

[Dean Roddey]

Nevermind, I was looking at the pictures, but the wiring diagram shows only one set being used and going through the meter board. I assume that's some difference between the rotary and push button versions, though it seems odd that they wouldn't go through the push buttons in that case. It also seems a little strange to push 110V through that little PCB board?

 

[Dean Roddey]

OK, now I'm completely confused before even starting. There are no A/B connectors on my meter board, so obviously the wiring diagram is way out of date relative to the latest boards and I should just be ignoring it and going by the wiring guide HTML page I guess. And I guess that's why I was seeing what I was seeing in the pictures.

It sure would be nice if there was a similar diagram that was up to date and for the rotary version.

 

[Dean Roddey]

So, on the Hairball t-pad, is there still a need to put the two resistors between the poles, or is that something specific to the type of t-pad that Skylar was using? All the other pictures I've seen are with that round t-pad. It wouldn't appear to be the case, but I figured I should ask...

 

[Echo North]

No resistors needed with the 3 deck Clarostat t-pad I sell.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[canidoit]

So, on the Hairball t-pad, is there still a need to put the two resistors between the poles, or is that something specific to the type of t-pad that Skylar was using? All the other pictures I've seen are with that round t-pad. It wouldn't appear to be the case, but I figured I should ask...

Here's a better view.

 

[Dean Roddey]

Where are the X & Y pads on the main board? The wiring guide indicates X&Y from the main board to the X&Y on the meter board, but I don't see any X&Y. Of course they are all covered by the Molex connectors so I'm going by the picture in the PDF, but I don't see any such pads in the picture.

 

[Echo North]

Where are the X & Y pads on the main board? The wiring guide indicates X&Y from the main board to the X&Y on the meter board, but I don't see any X&Y. Of course they are all covered by the Molex connectors so I'm going by the picture in the PDF, but I don't see any such pads in the picture.

On the revision A&D the meter X Y pads connect to the XLR output + and -.

You can go X pin 2 and Y to pin 3 or the other way around, doesn't matter.

Mike 

 

[mnats]

So many questions seem to get asked that are easily answered by simply looking at the original schematic. Believe it or not, this ancient relic is the most up-to-date document available* and contains the complete wiring diagram for the 1176.

Similarly, so many problems seem to be caused by people using drawings or pictures that are either inaccurate for the board version, misinterpreted or simply wrong. I'm sure these drawings and pictures were done with good intentions, but armed with the relevant PDF from my site and the correct schematic from the JBL site you can be assured that you have the correct information.

Just for example and not to single anyone out:

Where are the X & Y pads on the main board?

If you look at the schematic, you would see that X and Y are on the secondary of the output transformer. Since the output transformer is mounted directly on the board with the G1176 and similar, there are pads that connect to the secondary on the main board. But since the Rev D has a huge output transformer mounted off-board there won't be any pads connecting to the secondary as those wires are hanging off the back of the transformer waiting to be connected directly to the output and VU meter switch.

*aside from the addition of the newer power supply and a trimmer for R44 instead of a fixed, selected resistor mentioned on my Rev D page - neither of which affects the wiring in any way.

 

[Dean Roddey]

I understand what you are saying, but I'm not a hardware guy. I wouldn't trust anything I felt I understood about the schematic. It may seem dumb to you, but you come over to my side of the street (software) and I'll give you a diagram and inheritance hierarchy of a software program and ask you to create it from that diagram. And when you ask me, what's an overloaded method, I'd say, look at the diagram, it's obvious if you just read that diagram. But of course it wouldn't be obvious to you because you probably don't know much about software and the diagram wouldn't mean much to you.

So you have to make allowances for people coming to this from completely different worlds. And people who are doing this, not because they enjoy it, but because it's the only way they can afford good equipment, and who cannot afford to buy new stuff if they blow the current ones up. So we tend to be very cautious.

It would really only take one diagram, like Skylar's but up to date and appropriate for the rotary version. That's all that would be required and people like me could do this easily. That would mean something to someone like me. A schematic means very little to me. I'm perfectly capable of following instructions and stuffing a board, but I don't feel comfortable improvising or assuming that I understand something that's not explicitly stated.

If you would make the modest effort required to create such easy to follow instructions, you could sell a lot more and charge considerably more because then it wouldn't be something that only electronics geeks would feel comfortable doing. I built SCA pre-amps and an LA-2A from Drip without any problems, and they are great. I paid $250 for the board and T4 cell for the LA-2A and it was a bargain at that. If you would make it easier to build these things you could actually make some money, and the effort to do so wouldn't be very large at all.

 

[Dean Roddey]

Where are the X & Y pads on the main board? The wiring guide indicates X&Y from the main board to the X&Y on the meter board, but I don't see any X&Y. Of course they are all covered by the Molex connectors so I'm going by the picture in the PDF, but I don't see any such pads in the picture.

On the revision A&D the meter X Y pads connect to the XLR output + and -.

You can go X pin 2 and Y to pin 3 or the other way around, doesn't matter.

Mike 

In addition to the output transformer blue/red wires that are already going to the output XLR connections?

 

[rodabod]

Here's a better view.

Sorry to interrupt, but I just thought I'd say (I'm assumeing from what I've read earlier that you are are relatively new to this) your build looks neat and clean. Good work; it makes things so much easier in the long-run.

Roddy

 

[Biasrocks]

So you have to make allowances for people coming to this from completely different worlds. And people who are doing this, not because they enjoy it, but because it's the only way they can afford good equipment, and who cannot afford to buy new stuff if they blow the current ones up. So we tend to be very cautious.

Right, and would you be able to tolerate a newbie sitting next to you asking newbie software design questions for days on end?

Probably not, you'd tell them to go study the basics and get back to you.

I managed to get an 1176 up and running with all of the documents you have available to you. Mnats site is invaluable in that regard as is this one. The forum search function, not the google search function works quite well.

People here will tend to push you in the direction of learning something, not just push you along on a paint by numbers happy hour path.

http://www.geocities.com/m_natsume/1176-wiring.html

is as close to a step by step, hold you hand tutorial as your going to get, it's very good.

Mark

 

[Dean Roddey]

Right, and would you be able to tolerate a newbie sitting next to you asking newbie software design questions for days on end?

Probably not, you'd tell them to go study the basics and get back to you.

I'm quite capable of such things, because I do it all day every day to help the people who use our product. I understand that the product is a means to an end, not an end in itself to most people.

http://www.geocities.com/m_natsume/1176-wiring.html

is as close to a step by step, hold you hand tutorial as your going to get, it's very good.

Mark

But for a different and/or much older revision of the board or one of the other 1176 revisions.


Hell, if you guys will help me out, I'll do the freaking diagram when I'm done. It would take like a whole couple of hours and make it far easier for people to do this. Keep in mind, some of us don't really want to learn a lot. We are musicians and we need gear to make music. Our expertise is in other things (software in my case), and we'll likely never use any of this ever again, or very lightly at best. So it's not like it's a very useful time investment to try to become expert in something we never do. Not that I'm against learning anything in general, I'm very inquisitive. But there's only so much time in life and this isn't something that will benefit me very much in the future.

Given that one little diagram would let anyone build one of these things who can follow basic instructions and solder, without much trouble, and no such diagram exists out of all the people who have done it, that's pretty shocking to me. Give people a really good experience building something, and then those who want to learn more will be much encouraged to do so, and those who are just doing it for the gear will be able to get it done and not bother you.

 

[Biasrocks]

I'm quite capable of such things, because I do it all day every day to help the people who use our product.

That's a customer, not a co-worker, different ball game.

I did customer support a long time ago and I don't envy your position. 1 minute of silence please.

But for a different and/or much older revision of the board or one of the other 1176 revisions.

Errr, well mine was a Rev J and I don't think the wiring guide for Rev D is any different, perhaps MNats can confirm that.

Keep in mind, some of us don't really want to learn a lot. We are musicians and we need gear to make music. Our expertise is in other things (software in my case), and we'll likely never use any of this ever again, or very lightly at best. So it's not like it's a very useful time investment to try to become expert in something we never do.

Your X/Y meter question doesn't require anything but a little ambition and some back tracking to solve. I would suggest removing the connectors that are covering your board and taking a picture of the PCB, you will then have a reference for wiring the pads. This is simple common sense.

No one said you need to become an expert, quite the contrary. There are people here who are far more gifted in that respect than I'll ever be, but I managed to get my 1176 up and running by spending the time necessary to understand what was going on and looking at all the resources available to get me through it.

If this isn't to your liking, perhaps a commercial product is more up your alley.

Mark

 

[mnats]

I didn't create this project to make it easy to create a cheap 1176, to make lots of money or any of the reasons that some people seem to think I should have.

When I designed the boards there was no Rev D thread, no drawings, no pictures of DIY units, no endless T attenuator threads, just a schematic. I'm no electronic genius, just a guy who had a little time and motivation to try out building this thing. The boards were laid out to closely match the schematic as a way to encourage learning (with all due respect, the G1176 is very confusing to trace in comparison). The documentation that I created is all done for the same reason which is why I don't say exactly which component you should buy in the BOM. You learn more by trying things out, making a few mistakes, looking at the voltages involved when choosing electrolytics etc.

So you see, if it seems as though I am making things tough on the guy who just wants some cheap gear it's because that was never the intention. In my opinion DIY is a very bad way to save money as many here will attest.

 

[Dean Roddey]

So you see, if it seems as though I am making things tough on the guy who just wants some cheap gear it's because that was never the intention. In my opinion DIY is a very bad way to save money as many here will attest.

Are you kidding? It's a GREAT way, if some very basic instructions are provided. As I already indicated, I built two SCA pre-amps (way more challenging that this project in terms of soldering and tedious and careful work) and the Drip LA-2A. They went very well and I have now probably $5K worth of stuff for an investment of about $1500. This one will cost me about $600'ish, while a store bought one costs $2500. So that'll be more like $8000 worth (if you include the DI SCA DI board as well) for about $2100 of investment or so.

So it's an incredible way to save money for people who don't have the bucks to buy the real stuff. The whole point of this stuff is to make music, not to understand electronics. It's fine if someone wants to, and I'd be the first person to encourage them if that's why they want. But the point of a compressor is to make music and that's what I want it for.

I've been pushing the Drip guy to do an 1176, but other folks were saying why bother because this one was available. But with the kind of excellent instructions he provides, almost no one would ever come here if he did one because his would be so much easier to do. He provides a lot more than a diagram, but in terms of the wiring for this one, just one diagram would be all it would take to save folks from making a lot of mistakes.

 

[Dean Roddey]

That's a customer, not a co-worker, different ball game.

I did customer support a long time ago and I don't envy your position. 1 minute of silence please.

Allow me one moment of chest thumping ego here... I'm not in customer support. I created the entire 800,000 lines of code that make up the product (www.charmedquark.com). But it's a very complex product and everyone who buys it, no matter how techical, needs a lot of spinup help. So I spend a lot of time every day, on top of all the coding and documentation stuff I do, helping people and answering questions, most of which are fairly common ones because everyone goes through the same spin up pretty much.

Your X/Y meter question doesn't require anything but a little ambition and some backtracking to solve. I would suggest removing the connectors that are covering your board and taking a picture of the PCB, you will then have a reference for wiring the pads. This is simple common sense.

It's not about whether I can stare at the schematic and come up with what I think might be the right answer. It's about I cannot afford to fry this thing when I plug it in, or destroy the pads by repeated desoldering, or I will have flushed this money down the drain and there's no more to try again, so I want to be SURE I've hooked it up right, not think I hooked it up right. I mean, how hard is that to understand?

 

[Biasrocks]

It's not about whether I can stare at the schematic and come up with what I think might be the right answer. It's about I cannot afford to fry this thing when I plug it in, or destroy the pads by repeated desoldering, or I will have flushed this money down the drain and there's no more to try again, so I want to be SURE I've hooked it up right, not think I hooked it up right. I mean, how hard is that to understand?

Well the only way to be sure is to de-solder those connectors that you placed prematurely.

It's called learning.

If you don't have the confidence to de-solder a few connectors to solve a problem, then perhaps this project isn't for you.

Mark

 

[Dean Roddey]

Well the only way to be sure is to de-solder those connectors that you placed prematurely.

It's called learning.

If you don't have the confidence to de-solder a few connectors to solve a problem, then perhaps this project isn't for you.

Mark

I don't get your point. De-soldering all the Molex connectors (more like 12 of them not a few, and they wouldn't have been easy at all because of their widely spaced multi-pin configurations and the fact that you can't get a vacuum to one side while heating on the other) wouldn't have solved anything because there'd have been no X/Y connector under them, nor should it be required because I have the numbered layout of the board in the PDF file, which already told me there's no X/Y connector on the board, which is why I asked.

As to this project, it is for me, since I've already bought all the parts.

And the last I checked, one of the best ways to learn is to ask someone who knows, because they've already done it. Geez...

 

[mnats]

Your questions are getting lost in the banter.
[quote author=Dean Roddey]In addition to the output transformer blue/red wires that are already going to the output XLR connections?[/quote]
Yes, the X Y points are the output to the XLR. Your VU meter gets strapped across this output (through the standard 3.6k resistor) via the switch. Connect the X Y points on the rotary board to the output wires as Mike advised.

Back to the banter:
[quote author=Dean Roddey]So it's an incredible way to save money for people who don't have the bucks to buy the real stuff. [/quote]
Only if your time isn't worth much. But I suspect you command a decent hourly wage for the same time spent writing code. Given the time spent, are you really saving that much?

[quote author=Dean Roddey]Hell, if you guys will help me out, I'll do the freaking diagram when I'm done.[/quote]
If your offer to make one is genuine, I'm sure we will all be happy to pitch in and help if you post it when it is finished.