Capsule for C12 clone

[vintagear75]

Hello,

I plan to make a C12 clone on PCB C12 Vintage Microphone Clone PCB Set.

I have two options of capsules that I can get which are BeesNeez CK12 or OPR Ck12.

Does anyone have experience to advise me, which capsule is closer to the original C12?

 

[C12VR]

There is no one original C12 sound. There were many revisions of the CK12 capsule over time. What you need to know is that there are two basic types of the CK12 sound, one being the ELA M251 or deep resonator, with a stronger treble peak and a rise in the presence frequencies,
and the original C12 type, which is much flatter in the presence, and has a less pronounced (but similar) treble peak.
Nice resource on the different revisions (no hard evidence, so some info may be inaccurate):
https://groupdiy.com/threads/akg-ck12-capsule-revisions.60896/
OPR is nice. I'm a little concerned about the machining quality though, as all his backplates are really scratched up. Not sure it matters, and to his credit the capsules look very authentic, but something to think about. If you are willing to wait about 3 months, and don't mind minor dissassembly, order the MBHO KA1000 capsule head from Canford and gut it. You will need precision screwdrivers, but as long as you are careful (wear gloves, go slow) you will have a nice capsule for about 550USD shipped, less if you sell off the head unit. If you are in a country with VAT it will be more expensive, obviously. The build quality is outstanding, and Tim Campbell recommends MBHO.
https://www.canford.co.uk/Products/2020267/92-519_MB-KA-1100-K-MICROPHONE-CAPSULE
If you're willing to wait probably a year, 3u audio is supposed to come out with a true CK12 in the fall.

 

[vintagear75]

Thank you for your kind answer.

Problem is that MBHO do not sell just capsule, and in my case I need MBHO KA1100, and Tim Campbell never answered on my couple mails.

Do you mean about scratched backplates that is about ring, or bras under skin?
Does it possible that this can have impact to the sound?

How capsule looks, this is not most important thing for me, but sound is.
In that case, do you think that better solution is BeesNeez capsule?

Did you heard this two Australian made capsules, and if you are, what is your opinion?
Does you can tell that one is better then other, and, all in all, are they in high league (near Tim Campbell)?

Thank you for your opinions.

 

[kingkorg]

Thank you for your kind answer.

Problem is that MBHO do not sell just capsule, and in my case I need MBHO KA1100, and Tim Campbell never answered on my couple mails.

Do you mean about scratched backplates that is about ring, or bras under skin?
Does it possible that this can have impact to the sound?

How capsule looks, this is not most important thing for me, but sound is.
In that case, do you think that better solution is BeesNeez capsule?

Did you heard this two Australian made capsules, and if you are, what is your opinion?
Does you can tell that one is better then other, and, all in all, are they in high league (near Tim Campbell)?

Thank you for your opinions.

I haven't disassembled any of these to say if they are "in the same league" but both of these Australian capsules sound very different to Tim's capsules, and the difference could be because they are based on different revisions. Tim has also stated his capsules have evolved over time, so there is no "one sound" of Tim's capsule either. The latest ones are according to him more accurate. Don't know if there's any cut off date, or period.

My journey with CK12 capsule has led me to one conclusion, get a capsule, see if that's the sound you are after, if not continue the hunt. Not inexpensive or easy journey. But even getting the original elam or c12 mic would follow the same principle, and wouldn't necessarily lead to instant gratification. The very reason big names in the industry have several of these, and they all sound very different.

 

[vintagear75]

I haven't disassembled any of these to say if they are "in the same league" but both of these Australian capsules sound very different to Tim's capsules, and the difference could be because they are based on different revisions.

When you say that OPR an BeesNeez capsules sound very different from Tim's capsules, does it mean that sound and very different from vintage C12?

 

[kingkorg]

When you say that OPR an BeesNeez capsules sound very different from Tim's capsules, does it mean that sound and very different from vintage C12?

There is no one original C12 sound.

 

[C12VR]

Thank you for your kind answer.

Problem is that MBHO do not sell just capsule, and in my case I need MBHO KA1100, and Tim Campbell never answered on my couple mails.

Do you mean about scratched backplates that is about ring, or bras under skin?
Does it possible that this can have impact to the sound?

How capsule looks, this is not most important thing for me, but sound is.
In that case, do you think that better solution is BeesNeez capsule?

Did you heard this two Australian made capsules, and if you are, what is your opinion?
Does you can tell that one is better then other, and, all in all, are they in high league (near Tim Campbell)?

Thank you for your opinions.

I just returned a secondhand beesneez ck12 because it had a warp in the diaphragm and moisture spots all over the diaphragms. The seller claims it was never used. It is possible the grime on the capsule was from the seller, but given the diaphragm warps, I'm not so sure. Probably a fluke, but something to think about.

The scratches on the OPR I was referring to are on the backplate, so brass under the skin, not on the rings, where all available capsules are pretty scuffed looking, including TC.

The MBHO is easy to disassemble. Took me like 10 minutes. Either the KA1000 or Ka1100 will work. They are the same part internally, just connected for different patterns, AFAIK. Might be different, but MBHO never answered my inquiry.

I have never tried the Tim Campbell, though I have tried for years to get on his list. The OPR is a nice capsules. Better sound is 1000% subjective. I can only say that the manufacturers are all good caliber and care about their work. The only one I would avoid if you like original C12 family of sound is the Heiserman, which is markedly brighter than the other options on the market. It is also sadly unavailable from him at the moment. I think it's meant for ELA M251 sound.

 

[paulcheeba]

Voxorama will sell Haun CK12’s but the wait is a while. My favourite and most authentic compared to my collection of C12’s, C12a and 414’s etc. is the aluminium Beesneez. I buy them all the time.

 

[ElSmurf]

+1 for the Beesneez, even if it's just for its availability.

 

[Roxxy]

OPR is really nice and Mark is a great guy!

 

[OneRoomStudio]

Supposedly, there will be a new 3U CK12 available very soon.

 

[paulcheeba]

OPR is really nice and Mark is a great guy!

How is the low end on that? It looks really authentic.

 

[commanderberti]

Supposedly, there will be a new 3U CK12 available very soon.

Where did this information come from... that's what it's been saying for months..

 

[OneRoomStudio]

Where did this information come from... that's what it's been saying for months..

From the horse's mouth:

"Hi Peter,

We are doing well. Hope you are too.

We've ordered a custom-made machine. It should arrive in early December.

And we are making a plastic injection tooling too.

The ck12 capsules should be available later January, I believe.


Your sincerely,

Guosheng Zhuang"


He is running a little behind, but he's working on it.

 

[HerbertR]

From the horse's mouth:

"Hi Peter,

We are doing well. Hope you are too.

We've ordered a custom-made machine. It should arrive in early December.

And we are making a plastic injection tooling too.

The ck12 capsules should be available later January, I believe.


Your sincerely,

Guosheng Zhuang"


He is running a little behind, but he's working on it.

He said the same thing to me. He will do the job, but it will take a while. Good things take time...

 

[LevinGuitar]

In an alternative world: how about trying that electret cap with some kind of deemphasis? I'm very happy with that combo in a U67ish mic. Maybe someone how have a good clone already done can tell us if it's really possible to match the CK12 sound that way.

https://groupdiy.com/threads/new-ish-electret-capsule.76460/

 

[Roxxy]

How is the low end on that? It looks really authentic.

My comparisons with AKG style mics are Austrian Audio OC818 and AKG XLS II.I find the OPR really balanced with an open end that is really pleasing. There is a clear proximity effect which you can really use when singing more intimate stuff. It does not get thin when you get 20cm away. Still very balanced.

I also have Neumann mics and a Beesneez T1 for comparison. Soundwise not really comparable. A different style. Both have their use

 

[paulcheeba]

My comparisons with AKG style mics are Austrian Audio OC818 and AKG XLS II.I find the OPR really balanced with an open end that is really pleasing. There is a clear proximity effect which you can really use when singing more intimate stuff. It does not get thin when you get 20cm away. Still very balanced.

I also have Neumann mics and a Beesneez T1 for comparison. Soundwise not really comparable. A different style. Both have their use

Thanks, I’d love to hear his 251 or C12 in a shootout with the originals or Beesneez, Upton or Heiserman just to get an idea as all the samples I’ve heard online have been unflattering. The mics themselves look great though.

 

[Roxxy]

Thanks, I’d love to hear his 251 or C12 in a shootout with the originals or Beesneez, Upton or Heiserman just to get an idea as all the samples I’ve heard online have been unflattering. The mics themselves look great though.

Yes would be great. For me, the samples which can be found online do not reflect the real sound of the capsule as you say they are not that impressive. I bought it because I watched a video of someone who used it in a Flea body (forgot the thread). And this sample was so much better than the others so that I was convinced. And it turned out so much better! So I definitely can recommend it to give the capsule a try. Can’t compare to Beesneez or Tim Campbell though…

 

[LevinGuitar]

Another idea, for a cadrioid mic.
As far I see, this capsule haven't been discussed in this forum.

http://www.3uaudio.com/cp.asp?id=651

Surely that capsule could be bought without the mic (but the body isn't that bad and the grille is quite similar...)

I know it should be closer to a Rode capsule from NT1/NT1000/NTK and other edge k67s, but still would be nice if someone shared his expericence with the 3U Teal microphone capsule