China 'KM184'?
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RuudNL
Well-known member
As always, there is only one way to find out: try it! 
The point is that apart from the transformer you also need space for the electronic circuit.
And the spring for the capsule contact takes a relative big part of the length of the PCB.
(Not to forget the XLR insert...)
The point is that apart from the transformer you also need space for the electronic circuit.
And the spring for the capsule contact takes a relative big part of the length of the PCB.
(Not to forget the XLR insert...)
SMTs to the rescue?As always, there is only one way to find out: try it!
The point is that apart from the transformer you also need space for the electronic circuit.
And the spring for the capsule contact takes a relative big part of the length of the PCB.
(Not to forget the XLR insert...)
Just checked out the KM184 length and compared this to the CM-60, for which I designed a KM84 PCB without the CMOS oscillator. With a length of just 107mm versus 132 for the CM-60, the KM184 is pretty short, indeed. The length of the CM-60 PCB is 84mm, which I can reduce to an estimated 64...70mm, depending on how much room the capsule connection takes. I'm afraid adding the CMOS oscillator will not be feasible on such a small board, or I should use less DIY-friendly SMT elcaps and 0402 and 0603 SMTs where possible.
Jan
paulcheeba
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I think they get a bad rep but they sound great. I personally picked the Km184 over the Km84 in all the shootouts. I like Soyuz 013 tubes and Schoeps. Beesneez Lulus sound really punchy too. There’s a place for all of them.
I agree with Paul:
« There’s a place for all of them.«
I used KM184 on Violins in a Symphonic Orchestra (not my first choice) but they did well. Also as drum overheads - not bad. It’s just that people compare them to their older brother (KM84) inevitably.
M
« There’s a place for all of them.«
I used KM184 on Violins in a Symphonic Orchestra (not my first choice) but they did well. Also as drum overheads - not bad. It’s just that people compare them to their older brother (KM84) inevitably.
M
Barry Hufker
Well-known member
I'm afraid I did indeed compare the 184 to the 84, and also to its kin the 140. I would take the 84 any day over the others. But Neumann sells a lot of 184s, so someone is definitely enjoying them. The 184/140 frequency response is modeled after the KM54, but I find the 54 to be a much more enjoyable version than these newer models.
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The 140/184 has better rear rejection than the 84, that‘s one reason why it has its fans.
KM84 has terrible mechanical capsule stability issues. Several weak failure points, like the pins that easily get broken, or dependency on a tensioning ring for several key aspects of it's performance which gets loose over time.
These are some of the reasons they "upgraded" km84 to km184.
Up until now i had just 4 of km84 on my hands, but all 4 were severely out of spec, yet the owners swore on their sound, believing this was the way they were supposed to be.
I agree with you, but personally i would only buy, or even use km84 if i were 100% certain they are in spec.
This China km184 is not a good platform for km84 clones, because even if the capsule were good it isn't the ringt one for km84. Look how thin is the venting slot, compared to the km84.
Having in mind for how much KMS105 rip--offs go, and how well mechanically they are built, i wouldn't pay more than 50$ for these.
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k brown
Well-known member
@kingkorg measurements of the Takstar CM-60/Pronomic SCM-1, with KM 84; Takstar in blue, KM 84 in green.
With the grille removed from the Takstar, most of the 8kHz bump is removed, bringing it very close to the Neumann.
https://groupdiy.com/threads/pronomic-scm-1.69474/page-7
Don't think I'd mess with these China 'fakes', especially given the price compared to the Takstars. Only issue is they're a bit noisy for some purposes.
With the grille removed from the Takstar, most of the 8kHz bump is removed, bringing it very close to the Neumann.
https://groupdiy.com/threads/pronomic-scm-1.69474/page-7
Don't think I'd mess with these China 'fakes', especially given the price compared to the Takstars. Only issue is they're a bit noisy for some purposes.
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Some of KingKorg's comments on that graph, worth repeating (especially the part about KM84's weaker bass response apparently being due to being further from the speaker, i.e., not real):
I'm not sure what "old style" means here. Do current Takstars have the old style capsule?
k brown
Well-known member
He was referring the the style of grille on the front of the capsules. The thread that was in was mostly about a multi-hole style grille that was briefly on the SCM-1 capsules; they have gone back to the slotted style now found on the Takstars (the "old style"), that's shown on the graph. The 8kHz peak is from the deep recess of the diaphrams on both styles, and not form the style of grille.
Except for the grille style, all have the same capsule design.
RuudNL
Well-known member
Keep in mind that the electronics are very noisy!
But I tested the capsule on a different body and to my ears they sounded not too bad.
But I tested the capsule on a different body and to my ears they sounded not too bad.
Hi Ruud, thank you so much for sharing your findings about this unit.
Why do you think the electronics are noisy?
Is it because they used a completely different circuit than the KM184 or because of the components they choose?
I'm asking this because the U87ai china knockoff as far as I know uses the same exact circuit as the original U87ai and I don't notice any increase in noise compared to an original unit, and it actually sounds really good.
Maybe in this knock off they didn't copied the original circuit and used another electronic circuit?
Bold, they even have a zoomed in picture showing the "Made in Germany" label. Deutch customs officials might raise an eyebrow at "Made in Germany" goods being imported from AliExpress.
RuudNL
Well-known member
@Whoops : If you compare the pictures of the PCBs in post #6 (Neumann and 'China') I don't see any difference.
But maybe they used other (or inferior) components. Anyway: The 'Chinese' KM184's are not usable for serious recordings. Way too noisy! Which is a pity, because from what I heard the capsules are pretty good.
But maybe they used other (or inferior) components. Anyway: The 'Chinese' KM184's are not usable for serious recordings. Way too noisy! Which is a pity, because from what I heard the capsules are pretty good.
A missed opportunity. It should not be that hard to build a half-decent low-noise head amp and generate more sales. Yet another example of what I consider irrational product engineering that is soooo typical for many chinese products. They are going to great lengths to exactly copy a product, then forget to use quality components...
Same story for the KMS105 clone with 22mm capsule. Decent capsule but horribly noisy.
https://groupdiy.com/threads/new-22mm-km184-kk105-style-capsule.84519/post-1167726
Jan
Same story for the KMS105 clone with 22mm capsule. Decent capsule but horribly noisy.
https://groupdiy.com/threads/new-22mm-km184-kk105-style-capsule.84519/post-1167726
Jan
These Chinese Neumann branded microphones have been entering Germany and EU with no problems at all for somes years now, I talk from first hand experience.
normally the outside box does't have the Neumann logo or "Made in Germany" just the insides.
You also have China Shure, China Sennheiser, China Gibson...
Yes, looking at it they seem to be the same exact circuit
Being that the circuits are the same then it shouldn't be to difficult to find the reason for the extra added noise, it could only be due to the use of some inferior components at some points, probably the semiconductors.
I bet we can easily find the culprit components (noise), if the circuits are the same then they can sound the same
It's smd which is a little harder to swap stuff and test but totally feasibly.
The hard part would be if the capsule was not good, but if the capsule is decent then the electronic circuit is the easy link in the chain
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A missed opportunity. It should not be that hard to build a half-decent low-noise head amp and generate more sales. Yet another example of what I consider irrational product engineering that is soooo typical for many chinese products. They are going to great lengths to exactly copy a product, then forget to use quality components...
That's not what they did with their U87ai, that one sounds great just out of the box.
You can take it out of the box and use it in a professional recording session.
although all of these are faked Neumanns it seems that probably the original "cloner" developer of them was not the same person/company in these different models
