New 22mm (km184/kk105 style) Capsule

[kingkorg]

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtxgsac
This one is not winning any contests, but i think it's a breath of fresh air, especially for the price.

Capsules of the similar construction (mxl603...) tend to have terrible spike in high end, and/or huge notch because of dependence on the rear chamber of MXL603 type body.

Here, access to chamber is blocked, similarly to KK105 (Neumann kms105), capsule gets venting from the side slots. It means the sound won't change depending on what body you use, and you dont get rear chamber resonances.

It has a notch, which probably can be fixed, but i think it's not too deep, and can actually help with sibilance. It has a slight, smooth low end roll off. I think this would be a great capsule for close miking, stage vocals...

Smooth, mid forward, unique sounding capsule. Fits my Takstar CM60.

MAJOR UPDATE:
https://groupdiy.com/threads/new-22mm-km184-kk105-style-capsule.84519/post-1141770

Low end fix:
https://groupdiy.com/threads/new-22mm-km184-kk105-style-capsule.84519/post-1141871

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Looks promising. I hope they make omni and hypercardioid versions too, it looks like it could be great for a switchable capsule mic. One of the things keeping me away from 3U's DIY SDC caps is having to use the MXL body. I just don't like the vents being on both the body and the capsule.

 

[Paul W]

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtxgsac
This one is not winning any contests, but i think it's a breath of fresh air, especially for the price.

Could you elaborate as to why it's "not winning any contests"?

Capsules of the similar construction (mxl603...) tend to have terrible spike in high end, and/or huge notch because of dependence on the rear chamber of MXL603 type body.

Does that suggest that the capsules for CM-60 and CM-63 are likely to perform differently on those two mics because they're sensitive to the size of the body vents? (They have the same number of slots but the ones on the CM-63 are twice as wide as the ones on the CM-60. I don't know if that matters, or if they're both beyond some point that it makes little difference.)

Would that explain the differences in the published frequency responses, or do they likely have different stock capsules? (I wonder if anyone has tried just swapping capsules between a CM-60 and a CM-63.)

Here, access to chamber is blocked, similarly to KK105 (Neumann kms105), capsule gets venting from the side slots. It means the sound won't change depending on what body you use, and you dont get rear chamber resonances.

It has a notch, which probably can be fixed, but i think it's not too deep, and can actually help with sibilance. It has a slight, smooth low end roll off. I think this would be a great capsule for close miking, stage vocals...

What do you mean by "probably can be fixed"? Do you mean that the notch is mild enough that just EQing out is probably OK, or that you'd try modding the slots, or what?

Smooth, mid forward, unique sounding capsule. Fits my Takstar CM60.

I guess that means they'd fit a CM-63, too, and with that you get a pad switch. (And an omni capsule wouldn't care about the body vent size either.)

 

[JW]

These look like they'd fit on the KM84 kits from Bonzai? As for 3U, they have a couple different sizes, 5mm being one of them.

 

[kingkorg]

Could you elaborate as to why it's "not winning any contests"?

It ideally shouldn't have that notch, or midrange bump.

Does that suggest that the capsules for CM-60 and CM-63 are likely to perform differently on those two mics because they're sensitive to the size of the body vents? (They have the same number of slots but the ones on the CM-63 are twice as wide as the ones on the CM-60. I don't know if that matters, or if they're both beyond some point that it makes little difference.)

Absolutely, the vents impact the sound.

Would that explain the differences in the published frequency responses, or do they likely have different stock capsules? (I wonder if anyone has tried just swapping capsules between a CM-60 and a CM-63.)

Those graphs come from outer space, and have nothing to do with real responses of those capsules.

What do you mean by "probably can be fixed"? Do you mean that the notch is mild enough that just EQing out is probably OK, or that you'd try modding the slots, or what?

Can't be eqed as the "flaw" comes from physical issue.

I guess that means they'd fit a CM-63, too, and with that you get a pad switch. (And an omni capsule wouldn't care about the body vent size either.)

No experience with CM-63 here.

 

[Paul W]

Those graphs come from outer space, and have nothing to do with real responses of those capsules.

No experience with CM-63 here.

Would you be interested in measuring and comparing if I bought you a CM-63?

 

[kingkorg]

Would you be interested in measuring and comparing if I bought you a CM-63?

Not in Norway at this point where my measurement setup is. At least one month before i get there.

 

[Paul W]

Not in Norway at this point where my measurement setup is. At least one month before i get there.

I'm not really in a hurry. Let me know if you're interested.

 

[pmfalcman]

I got a pair of mine few days ago. Put them on CM-60s. Today, in my garden, I noticed quite pronounced difference in levels between the mics. A good 20° of turn of one knob. Yes, I know, it's very scientific... But DR-70 has no gain indicator.
All distant sounds (birds, train, far traffic) therefore one can assume a uniform sound pressure arriving at both mics.
Swapping the capsules made the levels levelled.

It seems to me that these capsules capture less LF, compared to original CM-60.
Or this may be the effect of more pronounced midrange Kingkorg mentions.
Cannot judge but by ear alone.

Am wondering if reducing the front protruding "lip" would improve sonic characteristic.

 

[kingkorg]

Here's an update. I got to play with this capsule finally. Good news is that it can easily be improved.

The side vents should be widened to 1.5mm. They are too small and cause the dip between 8 and 9K. This also improved rear rejection. Lack of venting created huge spike in this region from the rear and the spike actually touched the notch at 0°. With widened vents rear rejection is beyond impressive. It's actually insane!

The capsule should be disassembled so the filings don't end up where they shouldn't.

 

[hop.sing]

is it really the case that the seller doesn’t sell the capsule to Germany or is it just a glitch with my browser?

 

[rock soderstrom]

is it really the case that the seller doesn’t sell the capsule to Germany or is it just a glitch with my browser?

It's the same for me, that happens quite often...

 

[pmfalcman]

Hey guys.
Try this link. It works for Poland.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005209822980.html

 

[rock soderstrom]

Hey guys.
Try this link. It works for Poland.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005209822980.html

Thanks, but it doesn't work either.

PS: I live 35km from the Polish border. Small difference, big effect

 

[hop.sing]

Hey guys.
Try this link. It works for Poland.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005209822980.html

Thanks, but it doesn't work either

no, it does not...
this is advertised as a workaround for cases like this:
https://www.colisexpat.com/de/
Did anybody try that?

 

[pmfalcman]

PS: I live 35km from the Polish border. Small difference, big effect

And postage costs from PL to DE not much less than cost of one capsule.

Around 12,50 euro by DPD.

 

[kingkorg]

Another update. Low end fixed!

Turns out the spacer between the diaphragm and the backplate was only 10 microns. This led the diaphragm to get way too close to the backplate, and the attraction force was restrictig the diaphragm movement. This was with ca.60V polarization voltage. Quite possibly lower polarization will give more low end.

I decided to replace the spacer with 40micron one (just Scotch tape i measured with my micrometer), and voila... This will lead to slightly more noise as it reduces capsule sensitivity by about 4db. Slightly different FR, but still very nice.

 

[Erik2345]

THAT is impressive

 

[pmfalcman]

(...)
The side vents should be widened to 1.5mm. They are too small and cause the dip between 8 and 9K. This also improved rear rejection. Lack of venting (...)

@kingkorg - I'm wondering: the shape of the vents shouldn't affect FR, right? It's all about the volume of the air (correct me if I'm wrong.) Therefore it might be easier and cleaner looking to drill two 3 mm holes in each vent slot.
The slots are approx. 12 mm long. After modification they're 1,5 mm wide. It gives 18 mm sq.
Two 3 mm holes plus remaining lenghts of the slot would amount to approx. 17 mm sq.
Should be good enough. What do you think?

Second thing - the front of the capsule and its protrouding lip. Sticking up quite far, sharp edges. Wouldn't reducing its height and rounding it be beneficial?

 

[kingkorg]

@kingkorg - I'm wondering: the shape of the vents shouldn't affect FR, right? It's all about the volume of the air (correct me if I'm wrong.) Therefore it might be easier and cleaner looking to drill two 3 mm holes in each vent slot.
The slots are approx. 12 mm long. After modification they're 1,5 mm wide. It gives 18 mm sq.
Two 3 mm holes plus remaining lenghts of the slot would amount to approx. 17 mm sq.
Should be good enough. What do you think?

Should work, and you are right regarding the total volume. However i am not sure if the issue was in the lack of air volume, or if the edges were creating internal reflections. I just used 1 5mm file.

Second thing - the front of the capsule and its protrouding lip. Sticking up quite far, sharp edges. Wouldn't reducing its height and rounding it be beneficial?

Not an issue, edges are slanted outwards, so any sound coming off axis gets bounced outwards, away from the diaphragm.