China 'KM184'?

[telewulf]

Yet another example of what I consider irrational product engineering that is soooo typical for many chinese products.

Yes, it is irrational to the likes of us who are only interested in great microphones. But if we were interested in making as much money as we can with the smallest invest possible, it is very rational enineering in deed! People will buy Neuma__ anyway, won´t they?

 

[jp8]

It's smd which is a little harder to swap stuff and test but totally feasibly.

Of course, YMMV, but I find swapping SMT parts far more easy to do than through-hole components. You just need the right tools, i.e. just buy two of those cheap but very usable TS101 or similar solder irons and maybe a magnifying glass or stereo microscope. An investment of probably less than the costs of a single high-quality DIY LDC mic build. Grab the part between the two tips and you'll lift the parts off the PCB in a matter of a few seconds. No turning of PCBAs, solder sucking, damaging solder pads etc.

Jan

 

[Murdock]

I agree. I was also hesitant about SMT components. But after servicing my broadcast console which has all parts (except the Elko caps) in SMT I’ve got to appreciate it. Also for fault finding and probing.
But these were older bigger components. They’ve gotten so small it’s probably a little bit more difficult nowadays.

 

[RuudNL]

Is this serious, or good for a laugh?

http://www.rensheijnis.com/Neumann.htm

"Neumann also use the inferior sounding SMD printed circuit boards in his modern microphones."

"When you are not satisfied with the sound of your microphone: too sharp, strident, thin, lacking vibrancy
or anything else, it is possible to retrofit your microphone with better electronics to improve the sound.
After retrofitting your microphone has a smoother sound, less sharp and strident, more vibrancy."

 

[pasarski]

Is this serious, or good for a laugh?

http://www.rensheijnis.com/Neumann.htm

"Neumann also use the inferior sounding SMD printed circuit boards in his modern microphones."

"When you are not satisfied with the sound of your microphone: too sharp, strident, thin, lacking vibrancy
or anything else, it is possible to retrofit your microphone with better electronics to improve the sound.
After retrofitting your microphone has a smoother sound, less sharp and strident, more vibrancy."

Thank you! The site is pure gold

"Phantom-fed microphones are inherently less suitable for high-quality audio usage
since they work as compressors: when, for instance, high dynamics are required,
strong demands are made on the current supply of the phantom.
As a result, the current supply drops drastically and the stereo image and frequency
response collapse with it."

 

[MicUlli]

"Phantom-fed microphones are inherently less suitable for high-quality audio usage
since they work as compressors: when, for instance, high dynamics are required,
strong demands are made on the current supply of the phantom.
As a result, the current supply drops drastically and the stereo image and frequency
response collapse with it."

"Unser Wissen und Verstand ist mit Finsternis umhüllet"

 

[pmfalcman]

"the difference between phantom power and active power"

By Jove! My mics are powered by inactive power!!

 

[Khron]

As a result, the current supply drops drastically and the stereo image and frequency
response collapse with it.

... Especially on MONO sources

 

[Barry Hufker]

Just for the record, I have two microphones made by Rens Heijnis —the Sonodore RCM 402 (matched pair). They are wonderful microphones and I use them every chance I get.

And I have a pair of Schoeps MK 2S omnis. Originally these mics had CMC5 amps. I had Rens put in his electronics and the sound improved greatly. The tubbiness in the lower mids, that were the sound of the Schoeps amp, totally disappeared. Great sound!

 

[pasarski]

Just for the record, I have two microphones made by Rens Heijnis —the Sonodore RCM 402 (matched pair). They are wonderful microphones and I use them every chance I get.

And I have a pair of Schoeps MK 2S omnis. Originally these mics had CMC5 amps. I had Rens put in his electronics and the sound improved greatly. The tubbiness in the lower mids, that were the sound of the Schoeps amp, totally disappeared. Great sound!

I actually don't doubt that they sound good. It's quite possible that the comedic aspect of the website comes from a combination of poor translation and perhaps an overly enthusiastic marketing person. And yes, designing with phantom power can be somewhat limiting (though I wouldn't say "compressing").

Modding expensive (imo good) German mics is a separate subject, but to each their own I guess.

 

[Barry Hufker]

I should add that I asked Rens to modify a stereo Schoeps CMTS 501u
initially and after that turned out well, I asked him to modify the two MK 2S mics. I have been very happy with all of these changes, the mics running on 60 volt power supplies.

IMO, modifying “good” mics to make them better ones is always worthwhile. Nothing is perfect…

 

[RuudNL]

I finally had the opportunity to compare my friends 'China KM184' to a real Neumann KM184.
The test confirms what I already thought I heard: no obvious peaks or dips in the frequency response.
The China KM184 has a bit more pronounced (better?) low-end and a boost above 7 KHz in the range of 2 dB.
Black=Neumann KM184, Blue= 'China' KM184. Smoothing is 1/3 octave.

 

[jp8]

@RuudNL, did you also measure off-axis response? From a shootout on Youtube I remember the KM184 sounded thin and awkward on an off-axis recorded male voice. 3U capsule performed much better in that shootout. Would be interesting to know how the knock-off KM184 compares to the real one.

Jan

 

[RuudNL]

I only measured the front.
The microphone is already returned to the owner.
But from what I heard ("Hello, 1, 2, 3") I didn't get the impression that these microphones have a weird off-axis response.

(I usually don't record male voices off-axis! )

 

[jp8]

Typically, you will indeed not purpously record a source off-axis with a cardiod mic, but in the example that I mentioned, the KM184 was used to record an acoustical guitar, while another mic was used to record the male singer. But the off-axis bleed picked up by the KM184 was audible in the mix and was negatively affecting the recorded voice. And when the mic for the voice pick-up was muted, you could clearly hear the weird off-axis response of the KM184 (at least that was my subjective opinion).

Jan

 

[ccaudle]

I usually don't record male voices off-axis

If you are e.g. recording a choir using ORTF main pair, most of the voices will be off-axis.

 

[RuudNL]

If you are e.g. recording a choir using ORTF main pair, most of the voices will be off-axis.

I never record choirs and certainly not in ORTF...

 

[Whoops]

@RuudNL, did you also measure off-axis response? From a shootout on Youtube I remember the KM184 sounded thin and awkward on an off-axis recorded male voice. 3U capsule performed much better in that shootout. Would be interesting to know how the knock-off KM184 compares to the real one.

Hi,
can you please post a link to that Youtube "shootout" ?

All cardioid microphones sound thin and "awkward" to me on an off-axis response, with no exception, which is completely normal.
Thin because a lot of frequencies are of course filtered, and "awkward" because is doesn't sound good for sure on "off-axis" as it's a directional microphone so it's supposed to sound good on Axis with the front of the capsule, and reject the sides and back.

But "Awkward" is a subjective term that can mean diferent things for diferent people so it would be great to see and listen that shootout you referred to so that we know exact what you are talking about

Thanks

 

[Whoops]

There is nothing intrinsically bad about recording with ORTF.

There was humor involved... I think you didn't get it

Ruud is from the Netherlands,
so he doesn't use Office de Radiodiffusion Télévision Française micing technics he uses Nederlandse Omroep Stitchting for stereo recording

 

[Barry Hufker]

Boy am I dumb! Thank you for pointing that out. Now I understand the language/cultural difference, I understand completely. My apologies to Ruud and all.

I have deleted my offensive post.