Compact desktop line mixer?

[Gold]

Used might be a better bet. I’d look for a Soundcraft that fits your needs in decent shape. Then replace all the pots, switches and faders. I bet that could come in under $1500. It’s a bunch of work though.

 

[Brian Roth]

FWIW, I've been noodling around in my brain on this concept. (After a 13" snowfall here in KS, I've been house-bound since last weekend. At my age, shoveling that much snow from my driveway is just asking for a heart attack...lol!)

The tepid response here (and the apparent lack of commercial products) might indicate there is little interest.

I can imagine a DIY building block system that could be used for OTB mixers, or a sub mixer for a synth rig. I even poked around at Mouser checking out prefab wiring solutions to connect front panel parts to a PCB(s).

shrug.....

Bri

 

[ruffrecords]

Here is a very rough front panel layout for a 7U 40mm wide channel module. XLR input at the top followed by +-10dB trim, a pair of AUX sends (with space beside for toggle or push button pre/post switch), pan and 100mm fader. There is space beside the fader to fit toggle or push button solo and HPF switches.



Cheers

Ian

 

[darth fader]

That panel layout looks like something I could help with, Mr Ian. Do you have dimensions to go with it?

 

[ruffrecords]

That panel layout looks like something I could help with, Mr Ian. Do you have dimensions to go with it?

It was designed using the free frontpaneldesigner software provided by Schaeffer on this side of the pond. They have an associate company on your side that will make the panels from the same design. I have attached the fpd file for the panel. You need to rename the extension from txt to fpd and load it into frontpaneldesigner, From there you can export it as a dxf file. As I wrote that I realised I could just append the dxf file instead so I have, lol.

Cheers

Ian

 

[darth fader]

Cool thanks for the response. I'll check that out when I get off. Is this layout for a specific pcb/project/diykit, Mr Ian?

 

[darth fader]

Also if my forum etiquette is off please inform me, gang. I've read the rules but I'm new and don't wish to offend

 

[MidnightArrakis]

It was designed using the free frontpaneldesigner software provided by Schaeffer on this side of the pond. They have an associate company on your side that will make the panels from the same design. I have attached the fpd file for the panel. You need to rename the extension from txt to fpd and load it into frontpaneldesigner, From there you can export it as a dxf file. As I wrote that I realised I could just append the dxf file instead so I have, lol.

Cheers

Ian

While I was able to easily import your DXF file into FPD, I received the following list of errors:

>> However, none of the errors shown above had any reference as to which specific geometries they are associated with. I can only assume that "The diameter is too small" errors are related to the front-panel hole cutouts for the mounting screws and the potentiometers.

In addition, FPD was also asking for both a "Material Thickness" (I used 3.00mm) and a "Corner Radius" dimension (I used 1.00mm). However, both of these entries were purely guesses on my part. Could you provide what these dimensions are?

I am also assuming/guessing that "The free-form element is to small to mill" error messages pertain to the graphics and text items included within your front-panel design. I have been told by sheet-metal shops on my side of the pond that the smallest width that they can mill is 0.015-inch (0.381mm). Of course, I have no idea how small/thin that "Frank" is able to engrave/mill. Do you know what he requires?

How about that you go ahead and attach an FPD file that needs to be typically renamed (either as a PDF or TXT file). In addition, attaching a (renamed) STP file would also be a really keen and spiffy thing to do for "good measure". Both the FPD and STP files will contain a whole bunch more of useful CAD-data than what a DXF file is capable of containing. But.....that's just me!!!

TALLY HO!!! And.....PIP - PIP!!!

/

 

[MidnightArrakis]

Also if my forum etiquette is off please inform me, gang. I've read the rules but I'm new and don't wish to offend

[if my forum etiquette is off please inform me. I'm new and don't wish to offend] -- Don't worry about this, but just be aware of the fact that.....while you are on this forum posting your comments and responses, it doesn't matter how cordial, nice and/or pleasant that you are in your writings, at some point-in-time.....SOMEBODY ON HERE WILL BE OFFENDED!!! >> I know this all too well!!! <<

By the way, what part of Indiana are you located? I grew up in Indy, used to work at WFBM (now, WRTV) and I also worked in a couple of Indy recording studios before moving out here in Maryland to work with "one of the largest concert sound-reinforcement companies in the world" back in the early 1980's. Now, I "design stuff", while working-from-home.

GOOD LUCK AND WELCOME TO THIS FORUM!!!.....

/

 

[Brian Roth]

Here is a very rough front panel layout for a 7U 40mm wide channel module. XLR input at the top followed by +-10dB trim, a pair of AUX sends (with space beside for toggle or push button pre/post switch), pan and 100mm fader. There is space beside the fader to fit toggle or push button solo and HPF switches.

View attachment 143051

Cheers

Ian

Hi Ian! I guess two of us are now pondering this. What rack format is that designed for? I am NOT up to speed on Eurorack and Eurocard, but after a quick look for info on both, I didn't immediately see anything to accommodate those dimensions. I'm guessing a version of Eurocard?

I am a big fan of modular systems, but have been thinking more along the lines of the mixer pictured in post #9 in this thread and the Speck unit mentioned in post #1.

http://www.speck.com/viafader/VF10M_popup.html

My VAGUE concept is a PCB mounted to the "floor" of a rack chassis (or similar) with flying leads to the front panel controls and rear panel I/O connectors.

But, you've gone much further than I have! <g>

Bri

 

[MidnightArrakis]

Here is a very rough front panel layout for a 7U 40mm wide channel module. XLR input at the top followed by +-10dB trim, a pair of AUX sends (with space beside for toggle or push button pre/post switch), pan and 100mm fader. There is space beside the fader to fit toggle or push button solo and HPF switches.
Ian

[Here is a very rough front panel layout for a 7U 40mm wide channel module] -- Are Euro-rack dimensions different than what the EIA-310 rack dimensions are here in the U.S.? I ask this because the dimensions I am seeing in your FPD panel dimensions are not jiving with what are considered to be the "nominal typical dimensions" of 19" rack equipment here in the U.S. As an example.....

I have measured a height/length dimension of your "7U" panel at being 12.055-inches (306.20mm -- actually, 306.197mm).

Here in the U.S., "1U" = 1.75" (44.45mm) minus the typical nominal clearance dimension of 0.030" (0.762mm) equals 1.72" (43.688mm). I have no idea what the "1U" dimensions are as used with the Euro-rack enclosures.

So, 1.75" X 7 = 12.25" - 0.030" = 12.22" (44.45mm X 7 = 311.15mm - 0.762mm = 310.388mm}.

12.22" - 12.055" = 0.165" (310.388mm - 306.20mm = 4.188mm). -- REDUCED HEIGHT DIFFERENCE --

And, your comment in Post #23 states that your panel-width is "40mm", yet I measure its width as being 40.31mm (actually, 40.3098mm), actually causing it to be "over-sized". Assuming that my CAD-measurements are accurate and true as coming from your FPD file, then it would seem to me that you have a built-in "interference fit" within your design. While I could certainly be wrong here because I'm not "hip" to the Euro-rack standards, but.....in following the same dimensional "logic" as I detailed above, I would think that your panel-width would be:

40mm - 0.762 = 39.24mm (going out 3-places would be 39.238mm). Bottom-line, your FPD-measured panel-width dimension is -- 1.07mm WIDER -- than what I am calculating what your panel-width should be. But, again.....I could be completely "out-to-lunch" here!!!

Actually, I would feel much better with a STP file and see how things turn out by using it instead.

>> My 2-pence worth!!!

/

 

[OneRoomStudio]

“Eurorack” is a modular synthesizer format that is not entirely related to professional audio “rack” dimensions. There are a few standard formats, such as 3U and 7U, but this refers to the height of the modules, not the width. Different manufacturers build equipment to slightly different specs, and in general, there’s more play/wiggle-room between modules than in pro audio rack standards.

My biggest issue with the Eurorack format is that audio connections are on the front panel (only power comes from behind the modules). Of course…you could defy convention…but they why use Eurorack at all?

 

[Brian Roth]

OK, the 7RU part confused me. I was finding articles like this, from the format's originator:

https://doepfer.de/a100_man/a100m_e.htm

Wikipedia only mentions 3U height.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurorack

I'm not a fan of the I/O connectors on the front....and I don't see anything in the Eurorack spec for busing. shrug.....

Bri

 

[ale47p]

if you have specifics question on Eurorack (not only dimensions) feel free to ask. I have done plates in the past (and still able to ) but I'm sure somebody else here is able too!
I don't see the point in this discussion, but maybe I'm not understanding, since OP was looking for a desktop line mixer.
Eurorack btw is "3U" height and lately some manufacturer started crafting "1U" modules. you can find "7U" height CASES for Eurorack where there are 2x3U rows + 1x1U row (just look for an Eurorack 7U case on the internet).
the "1U" row was born for utility modules, nowadays they put VCOs LFOs and so on as well

 

[ruffrecords]

While I was able to easily import your DXF file into FPD, I received the following listengraved test because it is very expensive but also limited

Front Panel designer can export an entire panel as a dxf file but I think it can only import a panel outline which may explain the errors. I have never tried importing an entire panel in dxf format into front panel designer. I posted it as dxf mainly for the benefit of @darth fader who I suspect is not familiar with front panel designer but is with dxf

When it comes to the engraving of text and so on, I no longer specify engraving because it is expensive and limited. Instead I specify UV printing which I have found to be just as durable but a lot cheaper and you can easily do graphics if you want to. I don't know if Frank can do this yet.

I am having breakfast at the moment (it is 9am here) using a laptop so I don't have access to the fpd file. I will post it later today when I get over to the workshop.

By the way, the panel thickness I chose was 2.5mm and there are no corner radii - the panel is rectangular.

Cheers

Ian

 

[ruffrecords]

if you have specifics question on Eurorack (not only dimensions) feel free to ask. I have done plates in the past (and still able to ) but I'm sure somebody else here is able too!
I don't see the point in this discussion, but maybe I'm not understanding, since OP was looking for a desktop line mixer.
Eurorack btw is "3U" height and lately some manufacturer started crafting "1U" modules. you can find "7U" height CASES for Eurorack where there are 2x3U rows + 1x1U row (just look for an Eurorack 7U case on the internet).
the "1U" row was born for utility modules, nowadays they put VCOs LFOs and so on as well

Eurorack is actually a DIN mechanical specification. The synth boys hijacked it many years ago and used the same name for their standard 3U high modules but the specification allows for modules of any number of U (3U, 6U and 9U being common). I chose 7U because it is just big enough for what we need and the synth boys make some nice 7U cases that we could probably modify to make it accommodate a 7U module - or you could complicate things a bit and fit the fader in a 4U module and the rest in a 3U module

https://www.thomann.co.uk/2_many_synths_eurorack_case_7u_104hp_oak.htm

Cheers

Ian

 

[ruffrecords]

OK, the 7RU part confused me. I was finding articles like this, from the format's originator:

https://doepfer.de/a100_man/a100m_e.htm

Wikipedia only mentions 3U height.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurorack

I'm not a fan of the I/O connectors on the front....and I don't see anything in the Eurorack spec for busing. shrug.....

Brispecification parts of which the synth boys took, simplified and called by the same name

Everything you say is correct. I am not suggesting complying with the synth boys Eurorack specification for everything. In fact Eurorack is a professional standard:

https://www.srs-products.co.uk/eurorack/

which the synth boys picked up and simplified for their own purposes. They called it by the same name. What I am suggesting is we use the same basic technique but modified for our needs. For example their modules are just front panels with components and PCBs hanging off them. There is no strengthening/screening metalwork such as in 500 series modules. They have a simple backplane PCB that carries power and some simple inter-module interconnects. The backplane connects to each module by a simple ribbon cable and all inputs/outputs are on the front panel. All of these techniques simplify construction and lower cost. What I am suggesting is we create our own pro audio backplane with some buses and feed it from a low noise +-15V supply.

Cheers

Ian

 

[MidnightArrakis]

the panel is rectangular.

[the panel is rectangular] -- You may want to check that out. Here is how your DXF file imported into Front Panel Designer:



/

 

[ruffrecords]

[the panel is rectangular] -- You may want to check that out. Here is how your DXF file imported into Front Panel Designer:

All I can tell you is I did not specify a corner radius when I designed the panel. Maybe what you see is the default minimum radius FPD use. You could try creating a plain panel in fpd with no corner radius, export it to dxf and check the corners.

Cheers

Ian