covid politics

[iturnknobs]

...back to COVID politics/policy.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/09/us/south-dakota-sioux-tribes/index.html

"They must complete a health questionnaire when they leave and when they return every time they go through a checkpoint."

SD governor has given these 2 Indian Tribes 48 hours to cease using these checkpoints going onto their reservations/land. This is as Republican as it gets. FINALLY someone is being proactive and logical concerning this pandemic and a jackass interferes. Please note political affiliation once again. Last I checked, that is their land. They were here first. Yet another Caucasian doing and taking what they want. Maybe they could hand out some Trump branded smallpox blankets at the checkpoints before the governor eliminates these LOGICAL checkpoints. You can't make this stuff up. Freedom. 'Murica. If we ignore this it will go away.... it's in the White House this week. The only way for logic to prevail would be for the virus to do its job in D.C. first.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Huh? Obviously it is 1500x now, did I claim otherwise? Perhaps you don't know the history of BRKB, but it was originally issued at a lower ratio. What I actually said is I used to own it, at a lower ratio (I recall the $2k price range), therefore figured it split at some point (which it did in 2010 now that I looked it up). If you wanted to point out it was originally 30x before that, fine, that would be welcome. But instead you bring up math skills, for the price now, which I never actually commented on  :

I stand corrected.... I have owned it for years and forgot about the split. I just looked up the history too.

For TMI, years ago when a young friend invited me to his wedding in CO, I didn't feel like paying for airfare and hotel rooms to visit with two families I didn't know. Instead I gave him the money I would have spent and told him to invest it in BRK/B to use toward a down payment on a house. Last time I talked with him about stocks he still owns that BRK/B position, but is on his second or third house, with 2 kids, etc.

So at this point I really can't tell, do you not comprehend what is written, or do you intentionally ignore it in order to lob unrelated insults.

maybe I didn't tap out soon enough...  No insult intended but some of the investment theory discussed still does not seem to add up.

Finally something we can agree on.

yup

JR

 

[iturnknobs]

The president’s valet driver tested positive. The Vice President’s press secretary tested positive. Ivanka Trump’s personal assistant just tested positive.  Open the country!!!

LIBERATE WASHINGTON D.C.!!!

South Korea has “re-opened” after showing the world how to successfully deal with the pandemic... and now they are again closing bars and nightclubs because of a spike in cases attributed to these venues. Open America. Freedom.... jackasses. Political affiliation most closely related to these big, great, wonderful ideas.... one guess.

 

[iturnknobs]

...and not even a mention at Fox News or Breitbart. Fake news, I guess. Top headline at Breitbart: 73% of US adults blame China for US Covid deaths. Way to go Republicans. Your head clown(plus the freedom ideology) is the real issue and now you want to fight the biggest country in the world. Genius. Bring the pain.

 

[Gold]

I saw a stencil on the sidewalk today. “Covfefe 19”. Kinda says it all. I think I’m going to get a jersey that says it.

 

[iturnknobs]

I have never even been to Breitbart but had to look to see this.....

This is where Steve Bannon came from prior to the general election DJT campaign 2015/16. He then became the president's main advisor and contributed to the "America First" slogan/ideology started and stated at the 2017 Presidential inauguration.
Also promoted by this campaign and administration(which I have mentioned before) is the deconstruction of the administrative state.
    If you would like a real "treat" from society, find a "hot topic" by maximum total comment count on Breitbart. Entertain yourself with the provided comments on said "hot topic". Then, to understand what is going on in society, SAFELY ASSume that this is a close representation 25% of all Trump supporters which is mathematically 10% of society(42% approval ratings..etc) given the statistically dependable results of a bell curve.  This means that 10% of society goes batsh*t crazy and 32% don't say anything when they know it's wrong because of ideology, religion, whatever...freedom... 'Murica. This all said and the illogical, selfish are still in control. Breitbart was/still is in the White House.
    Keep yourself informed and point out atrocities when you find them to watch those on the right squirm as they protect their single "issue" and let the idiocy continue. If White supremacists and Nazi supporters approve and support this president and his policies, it should raise HUGE red flags for anyone who supports this current administration and says these appalling ideologies are wrong.
    Back to the thread topic... 73% of US blames China for COVID. From what I have read, I believe this was not lab/human originated.  As far as I can tell, China did NOT maliciously force this virus on the world. If they did, as the right is pushing, then our self-proclaimed "war-time" president lost that war(BIGLY). I do not believe this scenario to be true.
    I do believe they under reported the contagious nature of the virus to get a handle on PPE before worldwide shortages occurred. Trump administration sent them 18 TONS of PPE in February when sh*thead was claiming "democratic hoax". He claims he's got a very good brain, but he was DUPED to the Nth degree while ignoring his top level scientific advisors. He would have done rhe same thing if he was smart enough, but he's NOT... that's why no one should blame China. Americans want to believe that this unfortunate situation was someone else's fault, but just like getting a "F" on a paper, it's always because you didn't do what you should have, early enough. Countries who have done best looked inwardly and cooperated as a whole. We have done neither of those things. FIGHT AGAINST FIGHTING CHINA.

 

[iturnknobs]

the only way for logic to prevail would be for the virus to do its job in D.C. first.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/10/politics/mike-pence-self-isolate-coronavirus/index.html

You can't make this stuff up. Bold gamble.

 

[JohnRoberts]

This is where Steve Bannon came from prior to the general election DJT campaign 2015/16. He then became the president's main advisor and contributed to the "America First" slogan/ideology started and stated at the 2017 Presidential inauguration.
Also promoted by this campaign and administration(which I have mentioned before) is the deconstruction of the administrative state.

Andrew Breitbart RIP (d.2012) was a very smart  conservative journalist.  Steve Bannon is another blowhard (perhaps that is why he got along with President Trump).

Andrew Brietbart was instrumental in changing political reporting and if anything deconstructed (revealed) some of the political team media.

    If you would like a real "treat" from society, find a "hot topic" by maximum total comment count on Breitbart. Entertain yourself with the provided comments on said "hot topic". Then, to understand what is going on in society, SAFELY ASSume that this is a close representation 25% of all Trump supporters which is mathematically 10% of society(42% approval ratings..etc) given the statistically dependable results of a bell curve.  This means that 10% of society goes batsh*t crazy and 32% don't say anything when they know it's wrong because of ideology, religion, whatever...freedom... 'Murica. This all said and the illogical, selfish are still in control. Breitbart was/still is in the White House.

I ASSume 'murica is pejorative about America , or at least some Americans.

    Keep yourself informed and point out atrocities when you find them to watch those on the right squirm as they protect their single "issue" and let the idiocy continue. If White supremacists and Nazi supporters approve and support this president and his policies, it should raise HUGE red flags for anyone who supports this current administration and says these appalling ideologies are wrong.

could say the same thing about excesses from the left...

    Back to the thread topic... 73% of US blames China for COVID. From what I have read, I believe this was not lab/human originated.

Straw man? It does not appear to be man/lab made, but current theory is that it was brought into a Wuhan lab for study (from bats) and accidentally released, or infected a lab worker, who then spread it locally. The research labs in Wuhan have long been criticized for unsafe practices.   

As far as I can tell, China did NOT maliciously force this virus on the world. If they did, as the right is pushing, then our self-proclaimed "war-time" president lost that war(BIGLY). I do not believe this scenario to be true.

I don't know anybody who does, of course the conspiracy theorists on both sides are working overtime.

OTOH I do not discount the possibility that the Communist party leadership recognized the potential to gain advantage from how they handled this accident.  There is a pattern of behavior that clearly exposed the west to more economic disruption, while China profited.  In a zero sum game world view this is logical, while absolutely horrendous.

    I do believe they under reported the contagious nature of the virus to get a handle on PPE before worldwide shortages occurred. Trump administration sent them 18 TONS of PPE in February when sh*thead was claiming "democratic hoax".

Your source is a tweet from Maxine Waters?

The hoax claim has been explained before... Trump accused the democrats of using it as their latest hoax to attack him, not that the virus was a hoax.

In hindsight everybody if a F'n genius. Yes, we could have used that PPE, but China clearly needed it at the time and we were working to improve relations with China. The world including me, underestimated the severity of this virus. The WHO did not declare it a pandemic until March, I recall pointing that out here, when I still trusted the WHO as not carrying water for China. In hindsight I should not have trusted the WHO. That is how hindsight works.

He claims he's got a very good brain, but he was DUPED to the Nth degree while ignoring his top level scientific advisors. He would have done rhe same thing if he was smart enough, but he's NOT... that's why no one should blame China. Americans want to believe that this unfortunate situation was someone else's fault, but just like getting a "F" on a paper, it's always because you didn't do what you should have, early enough. Countries who have done best looked inwardly and cooperated as a whole. We have done neither of those things.

I guess we aren't all that smart.

FIGHT AGAINST FIGHTING CHINA.

Usually after the first couple punches, you realize you are in a fight... If you want to turn the other cheek in a fist fight be my guest.  I trust the Chinese communists even less than I trust the US legislators and politicians (swamp dwellers). President Trump is not a turn the other cheek kind of guy.

It is odd who the anti-Trumpers are reflexively so willing to embrace, out of hatred against President Trump, or is it hatred against 'murica?

JR

 

[iturnknobs]

The hoax claim has been explained before... Trump accused the democrats of using it as their latest hoax to attack him, not that the virus was a hoax.

Definition of hoax (Entry 1 of 2)
transitive verb


: to trick into believing or accepting as genuine something false and often preposterous

Please explain your definition of the verb/noun. I am confused. Enlighten me.

Your source is a tweet from Maxine Waters?

No. Some Republican, white guy. Mike Pompeo, I think. U.S. Secretary of State. Official Twitter account. Feb 7th. Check it for yourself. Crazy. I'm not sure what you were getting at with the source thing. Please cite a source footnote. I did... without some strange vague dig at WHATEVER reference. The cut/paste thing is painful. I'll continue this in a more logical and fact driven discussion tomorrow. Just figured I'd get the ball rolling.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Definition of hoax (Entry 1 of 2)
transitive verb


: to trick into believing or accepting as genuine something false and often preposterous

Please explain your definition of the verb/noun. I am confused.

I am not sure if repeating myself will work any better...

President Trump did not call the corona virus a hoax, he said the democratic response blaming him for it was their latest hoax...

Enlighten me.No. Some Republican, white guy. Mike Pompeo, I think. U.S. Secretary of State. Official Twitter account. Feb 7th. Check it for yourself.

pass

Crazy. I'm not sure what you were getting at with the source thing. Please cite a source footnote.

Maxine Waters
✔
@RepMaxineWaters
Trump, you incompetent idiot! You sent 18 tons of PPE to China early but ignored warnings & called COVID19 concerns a hoax. You've endangered doctors, nurses, aids, orderlies, & janitors - all risking their lives to save ours. Pray 4 forgiveness for the harm that you're causing!

174K
4:05 PM - Mar 30, 2020

pretty much what you said verbatim... perhaps from the same talking points.

I did... without some strange vague dig at WHATEVER reference. The cut/paste thing is painful. I'll continue this in a more logical and fact driven discussion tomorrow. Just figured I'd get the ball rolling.

Sorry if this is confusing...

JR

 

[boji]

I find it odd that the dislike of China as a covid firestarter is used to signal or deride someone's political position.  After all,  it is common knowledge they are actively engaged in human rights violations and genocidal treatment of muslims, outmaneuver free markets, treat their citizens like GDP wage bots,  have relaxed rules on carbon emissions for sake of competitive advantage and have deployed a surveillance apparatus upon their own citizens that is breathtaking in scope, to say nothing of the fact they are buying up everyone's debt, and every US president in the last 25+ years has been doing as much trade with them as possible.

Besides, it's not the US Republican opinion of China we should be worried about, it's India's.  A recent tweet from Adhir Ranjan Chowdhury, a politician serving as the Leader of Indian National Congress and a Member of the Berhampore Parliament jumped the shark the other day, going on about the "Sinister designs of yellow expansionists" and "...needing to defang the venomous [Chinese] snakes"...

Edit:  Ha.. Looks like he got a lot of flack for his choice of words, and the tweet was removed:
https://www.freepressjournal.in/india/adhir-ranjan-chowdhury-has-a-warning-for-yellow-expansionist-china-urges-modi-govt-to-accord-diplomatic-recognition-to-taiwan

 

[john12ax7]

Things do not need to be mutually exclusive.  China certainly deserves blame in this, many countries are of this opinion.  Saying they should be absolved is kinda ridiculous.  It is also true that the US response has been rather poor.  So it is also likewise ridiculous for the US to try and completely excuse their poor behavior because of China.

 

[boji]

ridiculous for the US to try and completely excuse their poor behavior because of China.

Agreed. The fact we choose to perineally do business with and outsource our production to countries as immoral as China should say it all, irrespective of covid.  Red or blue, we always choose money over human rights whenever it suits us globally.  For example, every year, polls show the majority of citizens desire an end to our presence in the middle east.  Eventually we'll get a blue-tied potus and the whole army of outrage will flip script.  TDS will get swapped for BDS or some other crazy actor.  :   

 

[JohnRoberts]

I find it odd that the dislike of China as a covid firestarter is used to signal or deride someone's political position.  After all,  it is common knowledge they are actively engaged in human rights violations and genocidal treatment of muslims, outmaneuver free markets, treat their citizens like GDP wage bots,  have relaxed rules on carbon emissions for sake of competitive advantage and have deployed a surveillance apparatus upon their own citizens that is breathtaking in scope, to say nothing of the fact they are buying up everyone's debt, and every US president in the last 25+ years has been doing as much trade with them as possible.

Besides, it's not the US Republican opinion of China we should be worried about, it's India's.  A recent tweet from Adhir Ranjan Chowdhury, a politician serving as the Leader of Indian National Congress and a Member of the Berhampore Parliament jumped the shark the other day, going on about the "Sinister designs of yellow expansionists" and "...needing to defang the venomous [Chinese] snakes"...

Edit:  Ha.. Looks like he got a lot of flack for his choice of words, and the tweet was removed:
https://www.freepressjournal.in/india/adhir-ranjan-chowdhury-has-a-warning-for-yellow-expansionist-china-urges-modi-govt-to-accord-diplomatic-recognition-to-taiwan

I'd be less worried about words and more about actual military conflict.

"Indian and Chinese troops clash at two sites along disputed Himalayan border"
https://www.janes.com/article/96063/indian-and-chinese-troops-clash-at-two-sites-along-disputed-himalayan-border

China has been testing its neighbors in the pacific region. Taiwan has long been a point of contention for communist China..

JR

 

[crazydoc]

I see on the news this morning warnings that China is hacking vaccine research sites (and I bet they're not the only ones). So even though millions are going to die from this disease, instead of global cooperation in developing vaccines to save human lives, as usual it's all about the money and industrial espionage on all sides.

I also note the horse's ass in chief (monkey see, monkey do) and his chief sycophant are requiring all white house staffers to wear masks to protect themselves (that's assuming he even knows the reason for the masks), but not wearing them themselves, showing they don't give a sh!t about anybody else, since a person can test negative (even the best tests initially have unreliable sensitivity, not to mention the crappy 15 minute tests they are using) and still be contagious to others.

You just gotta love homo sapiens.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I see on the news this morning warnings that China is hacking vaccine research sites (and I bet they're not the only ones). So even though millions are going to die from this disease, instead of global cooperation in developing vaccines to save human lives, as usual it's all about the money and industrial espionage on all sides.

News... ;D...  China's new attack came days after Iran just tried to hack Gilead...  Hacking western company IP is not news, but the recent shift is trying to steal vaccine research. 

I also note the horse's ass in chief (monkey see, monkey do) and his chief sycophant are requiring all white house staffers to wear masks to protect themselves (that's assuming he even knows the reason for the masks), but not wearing them themselves, showing they don't give a sh!t about anybody else, since a person can test negative (even the best tests initially have unreliable sensitivity, not to mention the crappy 15 minute tests they are using) and still be contagious to others.

You just gotta love homo sapiens.

Sure do, I find it remarkable how hatred for POTUS causes people to suspend any semblance of civility (not that he is gentleman).

I still consider (dust) masks a mostly feel good exercise, but two people both wearing dust masks more than doubles the efficacy.

JR

PS: Of course the high profile spokesmen and women need to set a good example while on TV... Maybe a clever audio expert could invent a mask with a microphone built in for pressers. 

 

[crazydoc]

I find it remarkable how hatred for POTUS causes people to suspend any semblance of civility (not that he is gentleman).

I can't be civil when discussing (IMHO of course) evil. I wouldn't feel hatred for him just as a narcissist who has no ability to feel compassion or empathy for another human being, but because he is in a position of power where the outcomes of his egomaniacal and ignorant thoughts and decisions cause heartbreak, hardship and loss of life for others.

I still consider (dust) masks a mostly feel good exercise, but two people both wearing dust masks more than doubles the efficacy.

To reiterate, the masks are NOT to protect the wearer, but to keep particulates of the wearer's slobber, boogers and loogies from spewing into the air where others can breathe them in, so  simple cloth masks can be beneficial in decreasing the contagion if everybody wears them.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I can't be civil when discussing (IMHO of course) evil. I wouldn't feel hatred for him just as a narcissist who has no ability to feel compassion or empathy for another human being, but because he is in a position of power where the outcomes of his egomaniacal and ignorant thoughts and decisions cause heartbreak, hardship and loss of life for others.

still sounds like partisan mind reading...  but that is only my personal opinion that this isn't warranted, not breaking any rules.

To reiterate, the masks are NOT to protect the wearer, but to keep particulates of the wearer's slobber, boogers and loogies from spewing into the air where others can breathe them in, so  simple cloth masks can be beneficial in decreasing the contagion if everybody wears them.

Indeed but aerosols can be generated in our lungs that easily pass through cloth masks and hang in the air for tens of minutes. (thus my interest in far/deep UV disinfection). Alternately treatment of circulating air with UVc will kill em, but must be done shielded from sight lines.

I understand that masks are mostly to keep us from transmitting our shedded virus when we are infected. I suspect many people even if infected don't realize it.  Of course cloth masks are better than no masks which is what we'd have if we tried to put everybody in n95 or better. If you want some real political drama, tell everybody to wear masks they can't get.

JR

 

[crazydoc]

still sounds like partisan mind reading...

No mind reading here, just listening to his talk and reading his tweets.

 

[boji]

I can't be civil when discussing (IMHO of course) evil. I wouldn't feel hatred for him just as a narcissist who has no ability to feel compassion or empathy for another human being, but because he is in a position of power where the outcomes of his egomaniacal and ignorant thoughts and decisions cause heartbreak, hardship and loss of life for others.

I totally understand your frustration over T, but I think it is misplaced.  The image of top American leadership has become a kayfabe, and Trump is no slouch when it comes to acting out the prewritten parts necessary to sell tickets and rile the crowd.  Recall in Back to the Future where Doc Brown scoffs at Marty's claim that in the future, Ronald Reagan "The Actor" will become president.  Then we got the Terminator.  Now consider that for a time, Drumpf literally played  rolls in the WWF for a stint. His character matched his real-life (fake) business persona perfectly, taking on the image of the 'Rich Evil Manager' in a staged rivalous coup during WrestleMania 23 between himself and WWE Chairman Vince McMahon.

Taking that man too seriously is the equivalent of thinking WWF wrestling is real, and hating "The Heel" for what he did/ or is plotting  to do to "The Face". 
I'm sorry to be so cynical with respect to our system, but I believe to a large degree the office of the presidency as a "Hallowed position", meant to stand-in and represent the will and best natures of the American people, has long since been sold to the MIC and other corporate lobbies, and turned into a 'Work'  (Wrestling-speak for a predetermined, fake fight).  Until we make the purchasing of our top leadership positions a bid-less affair where ideas and track record, not wealth and silver tongues determine eligibility, the next 'Evil Manager' will be acting out the part of the 'Good Manager',  just like all the well-scripted wrestling bouts/narrative arcs of the past.

I'm also sorry for all the air quotes " "  to make points, but that is the type of extra syntax required to explain what I think is going on nowadays*.  What was a shoot, has become a work, and what appears to be a work, often becomes a shoot or even worse, a 'Worked-shoot".

*Thanks to Eric Weinstein for thinking up the kayfabe analogy to account for these crazy times we're living in:
https://www.edge.org/response-detail/11783

As well as supportive material like this: https://www.jstor.org/stable/44071932