covid politics

[JohnRoberts]

Telling quotes from the article:

dismisses anyone who claims to know more than him

Above all, you must never make him feel ignorant.

“In my view he is a sociopath and a malignant narcissist. When a person suffering from these disorders feels the world closing in on them, their tendencies get worse. They lash out and fantasise and lose any ability to think rationally.”

Yet without exception, everyone I interviewed, including the most ardent Trump loyalists, made a similar point to Conway. Trump is deaf to advice, said one. He is his own worst enemy, said another. He only listens to family, said a third. He is mentally imbalanced, said a fourth.

Definition:

In the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5), [1] NPD is defined as comprising a pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), a constant need for admiration, and a lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by the presence of at least 5 of the following 9 criteria:

    A grandiose sense of self-importance

    A preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

    A belief that he or she is special and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people or institutions

    A need for excessive admiration

    A sense of entitlement

    Interpersonally exploitive behavior

    A lack of empathy

    Envy of others or a belief that others are envious of him or her

    A demonstration of arrogant and haughty behaviors or attitudes

For me this pretty much says it - has nothing to do with dissing the right, except that they've caved.

Search domain www.psychiatry.org/File Library/Psychiatrists/Practice/Ethics/APA-Ethics-Committee-Goldwater-Opinion.pdfhttps://www.psychiatry.org/File Library/Psychiatrists/Practice/Ethics/APA-Ethics-Committee-Goldwater-Opinion.pdf
2. Psychiatric diagnosis occurs in the context of an evaluation, based on thorough history taking, examination, and, where applicable, collateral information. It is a departure from the methods of the profession to render an opinion without an examination and without conducting an evaluation in accordance with the standards of psychiatric practice.

Of course armchair psychiatrists don't have to worry about industry ethics.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

At the risk of pointing out the obvious elephant in the room.... reopening the economy will benefit one political party more than the other. Of course partisan advantage should not have anything to do with public health decisions we should be alert to the potential for self interested agendas swaying public health advice and decisions.

I suspect both sides will identify villains here... have fun.

JR 

PS: Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[hodad]

you guys keep missing opportunities to slam the right..  :

Far more amazing is that you still keep inventing ways to defend the right.  You're twisting yourself into Gordian knots trying to justify Trump's constant malfeasance.  I commend you for your limberness if for nothing else.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Far more amazing is that you still keep inventing ways to defend the right.  You're twisting yourself into Gordian knots trying to justify Trump's constant malfeasance.  I commend you for your limberness if for nothing else.

I wish I was that limber...

Sorry you are so upset, and worried about me.

JR

 

[crazydoc]

Of course armchair psychiatrists don't have to worry about industry ethics.

If it quacks like a duck...

 

[JohnRoberts]

Edward Luce, Anthony Scaramucci and George Conway are hardly armchair psychiatrists....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Luce
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Scaramucci
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_T._Conway_III

Thanks I guess??  I remember "the mooch" before he got fired, he was a regular on business news networks. I don't recognize the other two.

JR

 

[living sounds]

At the risk of pointing out the obvious elephant in the room.... reopening the economy will benefit one political party more than the other.

And which one would that be? Because I certainly don't know. IF the economy recovers and the virus is kept in check it is more likely to help Republicans. IF reopening the economy leads to the virus spreading more and wreaking havoc in red states and swing states, it is not likely to help Republicans. Personally, I would consider scenario 2 more likely, but again, I don't know.

 

[fazer]

And which one would that be? Because I certainly don't know. IF the economy recovers and the virus is kept in check it is more likely to help Republicans. IF reopening the economy leads to the virus spreading more and wreaking havoc in red states and swing states, it is not likely to help Republicans. Personally, I would consider scenario 2 more likely, but again, I don't know.

That sounds right to me.  Better than any drama at this point.  You wake from what you think is a dream and its not. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

And which one would that be? Because I certainly don't know. IF the economy recovers and the virus is kept in check it is more likely to help Republicans. IF reopening the economy leads to the virus spreading more and wreaking havoc in red states and swing states, it is not likely to help Republicans. Personally, I would consider scenario 2 more likely, but again, I don't know.

That is called the prison of two ideas. It is certainly possible to reopen the economy without jump starting the pandemic. We even have historical precedents with Spanish Flu outbreaks linked to too early relaxing of preventative policies a century ago.

Germany kept something like 80% of its factories operating which means they don't need to be reopened.

In elections the strength of the economy and personal employment situation has a direct impact on how individuals vote. Keeping the economy shuttered through November would undoubtably harm the incumbent administration's chances (while trashing our small businesses even more).

There is a fair debate that we over reacted. In our federalist system, state governors have more authority to generate different local policies. These different policies can effect different results. One obvious example of the kind of differences this causes is how NY state's policy of forcing nursing homes to take in COVID positive patients, while Florida did pretty much the opposite protecting that high risk population and enjoying roughly 1/7 the nursing home deaths that NY saw . (Ironically perhaps Gov Cuomo is a rising star of the left while Gov Desantis is just another deplorable republican). 

I remain optimistic that we will figure this out (some states better than others). Even before this pandemic broke out some administration opponents called for economic collapse as worth it to remove the president they love to hate. Sadly that sentiment is still out there while few are willing to openly admit it, calling for a prolonged lock down is politically safer and will have a similar result.

JR

PS: I still can't read minds but the partisan enmity is worse now than I can recall from anytime during my lifetime.

 

[fazer]

I still can't read minds but the partisan enmity is worse now than I can recall from anytime during my lifetime.

Agreed the Dems and Pubs are more like Middle East religious tribe wars.  ”The hell with the people our party is right”.  Gonna get ugly this summer. Could get biblical.

 

[living sounds]

These different policies can effect different results. One obvious example of the kind of differences this causes is how NY state's policy of forcing nursing homes to take in COVID positive patients, while Florida did pretty much the opposite protecting that high risk population and enjoying roughly 1/7 the nursing home deaths that NY saw . (Ironically perhaps Gov Cuomo is a rising star of the left while Gov Desantis is just another deplorable republican). 

The most marked contrast is NY vs California. DeBlasio doesn't look good and Cuomo looks even worse:

https://www.propublica.org/article/two-coasts-one-virus-how-new-york-suffered-nearly-10-times-the-number-of-deaths-as-california

 

[Gold]

Just because Cuomo has done a better job than the total incompetence of the federal government doesn’t mean he’s done a good job.

DeSantis just fired the person in the health department responsible for the numbers. I wouldn’t trust any numbers out of Florida.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Just because Cuomo has done a better job than the total incompetence of the federal government doesn’t mean he’s done a good job.

DeSantis just fired the person in the health department responsible for the numbers. I wouldn’t trust any numbers out of Florida.

I moved away from NJ before it was cool to leave (60s).  8)

So many new yorkers have moved to FL you can probably already get a decent bagel with schmear down there. FL hasn't turned liberal progressive yet from all the tax escapees, like Austin TX has from the resettled fornians.  :

JR

 

[crazydoc]

So much to chew on here.

Straight Talk from ex-CDC for the Long Slog Ahead
By Bruce G. Weniger, MD, MPH and Chin-Yih Ou, PhD, medical epidemiologist and research-laboratory specialist, respectively; both retired from CDC

https://medium.com/@bgweniger/straight-talk-from-ex-cdc-for-the-long-slog-ahead-f9d18a8502d1

 

[JohnRoberts]

So much to chew on here.

Straight Talk from ex-CDC for the Long Slog Ahead
By Bruce G. Weniger, MD, MPH and Chin-Yih Ou, PhD, medical epidemiologist and research-laboratory specialist, respectively; both retired from CDC

https://medium.com/@bgweniger/straight-talk-from-ex-cdc-for-the-long-slog-ahead-f9d18a8502d1

I wondered why this was in the covid politics thread until I opened the link.

Politics is interfering with my life... This morning I saw a squirrel in my back yard so I came inside to load my pellet rifle and the phone rings, some puke from the republican something or other wanted to suck some more of my time. I told him to wish Donald happy birthday for me and hung up... by the time I got back outside the squirrel was long gone...  I blame President Trump  : :

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

I just got stung/bit in the yard by an unprovoked insect.... reminds me of politics.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

I just got stung/bit in the yard by an unprovoked insect.... reminds me of politics.

JR

That insect bite was not normal politics... My left forearm turned red and swelled up. It got warm to the touch no doubt from blood flow into it in reaction to the perceived trauma (inflammation).  I look a little like popeye but just on the left side. There is a classic fire ant pustule in the middle of the swelling. I have never seen such a strong reaction from just one bite... multiple fire ant bites close together can cause swelling (in fact they can kill cattle and very unlucky humans if swarmed) but this ant,  if it was an ant, is special.  :

JR

 

[Scodiddly]

That insect bite was not normal politics... My left forearm turned red and swelled up. It got warm to the touch no doubt from blood flow into it in reaction to the perceived trauma (inflammation).  I look a little like popeye but just on the left side. There is a classic fire ant pustule in the middle of the swelling. I have never seen such a strong reaction from just one bite... multiple fire ant bites close together can cause swelling (in fact they can kill cattle and very unlucky humans if swarmed) but this ant,  if it was an ant, is special.  :

JR

Don't worry, it's just a Democrat hoax.

 

[scott2000]

if it was an ant, is special.  :

JR

Maybe a caterpillar?? We have some, I think oak caterpillars, that can pack a punch....  We also have some , I don't know what they're called either, but they seem to hang out in tress...Not carpenter ants but some long body, almost like a wasp, and they hurt like heck too..... They usually just crawl around on you but, if they stay on long enough undetected, you'll know ....

Maybe an extra beer is in order....

 

[JohnRoberts]

Maybe a caterpillar?? We have some, I think oak caterpillars, that can pack a punch....  We also have some , I don't know what they're called either, but they seem to hang out in tress...Not carpenter ants but some long body, almost like a wasp, and they hurt like heck too..... They usually just crawl around on you but, if they stay on long enough undetected, you'll know ....

I just searched stinging caterpillars. Coincidentally I saw one caterpillar on the limbs I was collecting but he did not look as exotic as those "stinging" caterpillars.  Looked like a normal caterpillar and was not anywhere near my arm.

Maybe an extra beer is in order....

already ahead of you.....  8)

Don't worry, it's just a Democrat hoax.

My concept of reality has been questioned recently but I am pretty damn sure I got stung/bit by something.... evidence (oozing pustule) looks like a fire ant bite, but I have never had my arm swell up like this from just one ant bite. Then again I am getting old.  ;D

JR