covid politics

[crazydoc]

I've pretty much given up any hope of this pandemic improving much in the near future. Complete lack of any astute national leadership and a comprehensive plan to get this under control, and the fragmented response of the populace to even simple common sense control measures has turned this into a clusterfuk. As expected, deaths are now increasing in CA, AZ, TX FL as a response to the increasing case numbers in the last few weeks. Texas (mask mandate) looks like it might be starting to flatten the curve, but too early to tell.

I guess our best hope is a vaccine, but the distribution and efficacy of that will also probably be a disaster.

 

[crazydoc]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/07/25/nation/bipartisan-group-secretly-gathered-game-out-contested-trump-biden-election-it-wasnt-pretty/

paywall

 

[Winston OBoogie]

paywall

Jist of the story is here:

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/experts-gamed-out-a-contested-2020-election-all-scenarios-resulted-in-street-level-violence-in-america/

 

[JohnRoberts]

I've pretty much given up any hope of this pandemic improving much in the near future. Complete lack of any astute national leadership and a comprehensive plan to get this under control, and the fragmented response of the populace to even simple common sense control measures has turned this into a clusterfuk. As expected, deaths are now increasing in CA, AZ, TX FL as a response to the increasing case numbers in the last few weeks. Texas (mask mandate) looks like it might be starting to flatten the curve, but too early to tell.

I guess our best hope is a vaccine, but the distribution and efficacy of that will also probably be a disaster.

Since this is the politics thread I thought I share a political observation.

==One headline about a "student" Covid death raising concerns about reopening schools was a 19YO  college student... reading a little deeper into the story he was working as a custodian in an elementary school where two others also contracted COVID.

I don't find this article very instructive about risk for younger children returning to classrooms, but the politics are transparent, if kids must stay home, parent care givers can't easily return to work. Keeping the economy under performing will reflect poorly on the current administration (It's the economy stupid).

Of course the opposition will argue that POTUS would risk the safety of children to improve his reelection chances.  We can learn from other nations that have already reopened schools, and we need to also understand the downside (besides economic) of not returning students to classrooms.

The dead elementary school janitor (student?) suggests that school surely needs to review its safety practices before it opens. 

==Another headline painting a deceptive picture from CNN. "A Florida mother lost a son to Covid-19. Days later, her daughter also died of it"... She lost two adult children aged 20 and 23 . Both were homebound with health issues(?) but fine  :.

It is not that unusual for headlines to tell the reader one thing to think while not being supported by the body of the article. Caveat Lector.

JR

 

[crazydoc]

I don't find this article very instructive about risk for younger children returning to classrooms, but the politics are transparent, if kids must stay home, parent care givers can't easily return to work. Keeping the economy under performing will reflect poorly on the current administration (It's the economy stupid).

Of course the opposition will argue that POTUS would risk the safety of children to improve his reelection chances. We can learn from other nations that have already reopened schools, and we need to also understand the downside (besides economic) of not returning students to classrooms. 

I believe other nations that have reopened schools were well on the downside of the prevalence curve - we are nowhere near that. Most places had a national plan for dealing with the epidemic - the US has a bunch of fragmented areas with wildly different disease characteristics and plans (or lack thereof), and there is no comprehensive plan to keep it from spreading from one area to another. Schools could be opened in some places with low disease, and rational plans to keep it from entering, and to keep it from spreading if it does. But it is crazy to think of opening schools in areas where the spread is out of control.

Whatever happens, it should be up to the parents whether or not to send their kids to school or not if they are open, and to live with the consequences of their decision either way. Caveat emptor.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I believe other nations that have reopened schools were well on the downside of the prevalence curve - we are nowhere near that.

Of course it needs to be local data driven and scientific, not a political decision that fallaciously suggests all open or none.

Most places had a national plan for dealing with the epidemic -

an easy criticism in hindsight.

the US has a bunch of fragmented areas with wildly different disease characteristics and plans (or lack thereof), and there is no comprehensive plan to keep it from spreading from one area to another.

The federal government has authority wrt interstate commerce but I am not sure how opening schools will increase transmission over state lines?

Schools could be opened in some places with low disease, and rational plans to keep it from entering, and to keep it from spreading if it does.

exactly

But it is crazy to think of opening schools in areas where the spread is out of control.

also true.

Whatever happens, it should be up to the parents whether or not to send their kids to school or not if they are open, and to live with the consequences of their decision either way. Caveat emptor.

There seems to be some conflict between what parents want and the teachers unions. One suggestion I heard wants parents to receive vouchers if their local schools don't open that they can use to pay for charter schools or alternate schooling. Of course the established bureaucracy objects to that.

The LA teachers union has a longer list of demands including defunding the police and a moratorium against charter schools (and a bunch more, never let a crisis go to waste).

Politics is trying to frame this as two bad (absolute) choices, hopefully we can be more thoughtful. 

JR

 

[crazydoc]

an easy criticism in hindsight.

Especially when there was a complete lack of foresight, and there was copious evidence of what needed to be done. Even dumbsh!t me knew it wasn't going to disappear like a miracle.

History will be cruel, and rightly so.

 

[hodad]

There seems to be some conflict between what parents want and the teachers unions.

What parents want is the opportunity to safely send their kids back to school.  Trump's premature reopening cost them that opportunity for the time being.  It's also costing about a thousand American lives each day at this point. 

Trump screwed all this up (why is it that Stalin's "Dizzy with success" line keeps passing through my head?), and now he's trying to bully the nation into screwing up even more because he thinks reopening schools will help him get re-elected. 

 

[crazydoc]

Here's a letter to the powers that be, signed by hundreds of health professionals (myself included), advising (in a nice way), that the decision makers dealing with this pandemic get their sh!t together. (Not that it will have any noticeable effect.)

https://uspirg.org/sites/pirg/files/USP_Public-health_final-letter-shutdowns_V2.pdf

If any ordinary citizens feel the same way, here is a petition they can sign:

https://uspirg.webaction.org/p/dia/action4/common/public/?action_KEY=39314&_ga=2.230873119.161365938.1595804553-1319728744.1595804553

 

[JohnRoberts]

Especially when there was a complete lack of foresight, and there was copious evidence of what needed to be done. Even dumbsh!t me knew it wasn't going to disappear like a miracle.

History will be cruel, and rightly so.

History hasn't been written yet and I am not smart enough to predict outcome from here.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

Here's a letter to the powers that be, signed by hundreds of health professionals (myself included), advising (in a nice way), that the decision makers dealing with this pandemic get their sh!t together. (Not that it will have any noticeable effect.)

https://uspirg.org/sites/pirg/files/USP_Public-health_final-letter-shutdowns_V2.pdf

That sounds (too) simple... but makes an effective political argument (accusing President Trump for killing thousands of people). Even Nancy Pelosi calls it the "Trump virus" trying to pin the tail that ass....(I made the obvious political joke so you didn't have to). 

If any ordinary citizens feel the same way, here is a petition they can sign:

https://uspirg.webaction.org/p/dia/action4/common/public/?action_KEY=39314&_ga=2.230873119.161365938.1595804553-1319728744.1595804553

Not on a bet... 

We can not avoid all risk in life... Why not reduce speed limits to 15 mph, that could save lives. Of course that is "reductio ad absurdum", but makes my point.

Yes the Trump administration made mistakes, as well as the previous administrations. The doom and gloom arm wavers warning about future pandemic risks were wrong and ignored until they were right. Now in hindsight they are geniuses, thats how it works in life. Pandemics are one of multiple such potential crisis we need to worry about. Any student of history has seen these prognosticators emerge from the shadows to take credit, after the fact.

I appreciate your informed opinion. Just because I don't embrace it in whole, doesn't mean I don't agree with parts. We are far smarter now than we were even a few months ago...  I recall the criticism and name calling when President Trump imposed travel restrictions from China.

On the day the White House announced the travel restrictions, Biden did say at a campaign event in Iowa that as the pandemic unfolds, Americans “need to have a president who they can trust what he says about it, that he is going to act rationally about it.” He added, “This is no time for Donald Trump’s record of hysteria and xenophobia – hysterical xenophobia – and fearmongering to lead the way instead of science.”
---
On April 3, Biden’s campaign said Biden supported Trump’s decision to impose travel restrictions on China.

Of course they reversed themselves when it turned out his action was correct.
 
I am not as smart as you, but still remain optimistic that we (the vast majority of us) will survive this.

JR

PS: Do you guys realize how exhausting this is? Sisyphus only had one rock to roll back up the hill... 

 

[crazydoc]

It's pretty obvious to most thoughtful people that POTUS Pants-on-Fire really screwed the pooch on his pandemic response. Though I won't live to see history's take on it I feel confident he'll go down as one of the worst.

Now when there is a need to try to do it over again, to salvage as much as possible, it's not going to happen again because there is no competent leadership. We don't need to drive 15mph, but it's wise to slow down when going through a construction zone with the road torn up.

The doom and gloom pandemic warners will be right again in the future - hindsight has nothing to do with it. Maybe learning from this will make the world better prepared (but history says not.)

 

[JohnRoberts]

It's pretty obvious to most thoughtful people that POTUS Pants-on-Fire really screwed the pooch on his pandemic response. Though I won't live to see history's take on it I feel confident he'll go down as one of the worst.

perhaps we can make a side bet, and settle up at our comet watching party in 7,000 years, (I'll bring the beer). 8)

Now when there is a need to try to do it over again, to salvage as much as possible, it's not going to happen again because there is no competent leadership. We don't need to drive 15mph, but it's wise to slow down when going through a construction zone with the road torn up.

The doom and gloom pandemic warners will be right again in the future - hindsight has nothing to do with it. Maybe learning from this will make the world better prepared (but history says not.)

As the saying goes history doesn't perfectly repeat, but it often rhymes.

I don't see medical practice from your perspective but I perceive some movement (adaption) that may make us better prepared for the next time, and there will always be a next time. That said I still have some of my same criticisms about doctors not using expert computer system capabilities.

I remain optimistic about far UVc, and much quicker more effective vaccines and mitigating treatments, but these will not help us that much this time. I don't expect to be around for the next time, but some of you guys will.

JR

 

[living sounds]

PS: Do you guys realize how exhausting this is? Sisyphus only had one rock to roll back up the hill... 

That's not what is exhausting these days... Have another guess. 

 

[crazydoc]

perhaps we can make a side bet, and settle up at our comet watching party in 7,000 years, (I'll bring the beer).
JR

Yeah, we can laugh about how the pandemic was just a little blip when compared to the asteroid that wiped out most of the world's population (but it needed a reset by then anyway.) 

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yeah, we can laugh about how the pandemic was just a little blip when compared to the asteroid that wiped out most of the world's population (but it needed a reset by then anyway.) 

That last big asteroid was a biotch for the dinosaur population.. 60+ million years ago... Next time we'll send up Bruce Willis. I think he is still working.  ;D

That comet is supposed to miss us again next time in 7,000 years.  NASA is working on intercepting comets, I guess training for the big un... (but aren't comets just frozen water? ) I guess it could still do some damage if it has enough mass, think a frozen snowball traveling thousands of miles per hour. 

JR

 

[crazydoc]

Over to politics

PS: Gates is a target for numerous conspiracy theories but his comments sounded reasonable to me.

The pandemic has really brought out the conspiracy loonies - before this I had no idea how  unable to reason so many Americans are - reminds me of George Carlin's take on religion.

Went to Walmart today - spoke to the "Health Ambassador" out front, a grey haired woman who said probably only 10% aren't wearing masks. She has no authority to require masks (had some in her hand to give out if requested) and said the police told her they wouldn't come to enforce it. So over a couple of months that store has gone from 10% to 90% with masks - that's pretty good for this republican stronghold - maybe there's hope.

As we were speaking several folks without masks walked into the store - I remarked to her in  loud voice that not wearing a mask just meant you were stupid. (Of course I made sure they were decrepit old folks before I said that.)  ;D

 

[L´Andratté]

To me especially stupid looking are those wearing a mask with their nose poking out

 

[JohnRoberts]

Over to politicsThe pandemic has really brought out the conspiracy loonies - before this I had no idea how  unable to reason so many Americans are - reminds me of George Carlin's take on religion.

Comedians can hide a lot of truth in their comedy...

Human decision making is not always rational and logical, so conspiracies are an attractive way to explain complex issues. The human brain likes to think it understands stuff it doesn't.

Went to Walmart today - spoke to the "Health Ambassador" out front, a grey haired woman who said probably only 10% aren't wearing masks. She has no authority to require masks (had some in her hand to give out if requested) and said the police told her they wouldn't come to enforce it. So over a couple of months that store has gone from 10% to 90% with masks - that's pretty good for this republican stronghold - maybe there's hope.

As we were speaking several folks without masks walked into the store - I remarked to her in  loud voice that not wearing a mask just meant you were stupid. (Of course I made sure they were decrepit old folks before I said that.)  ;D

Not sure where to put this one...

I am not a fan of government getting too involved in private industry but the administration is using a COVID emergency authority to set up Kodak (the obsolete film company) to make supplies for manufacture of generic drugs. This kind of makes long term sense since so much of our drug supply comes from offshore. This is reminiscent of how the last administration anointed industrial winners with solar energy loan guarantees (>$500M to Solyndra who went bankrupt by 2011).

I am uncomfortable with the government getting too involved in drug manufacturing, but am equally uncomfortable with so little domestic manufacturing of key ingredients. Especially as we enter a more contentious relationship with China, who could easily use this for leverage as they have in the past with rare earth elements and more.

JR

PS: OK for TMI about generics... I benefit from inexpensive generics (like so many). Because of low thyroid output I take a synthetic supplement (Synthroid?). I recall after the hurricane trashed PR, my prescription price doubled until they got their factories back on line.  Because of cartilage damage I have arthritis in one knee... for years I have been taking over the counter NSAIDs to manage inflammation. I buy generic naproxen sodium as cheaper than Aleve, with no problem but several weeks ago my knee told me the NSAID stopped working. I returned to using the branded Aleve and my knee quieted down.  Just to confirm that I wasn't imagining things, I started using that old stash of generic naproxen when the Aleve ran out, and my knee noticed. I am now on day two of using a new batch of generic naproxen and so far, knock on wood, my knee is cool. I notice the different generic batches have different imprint marking on the caplets so likely a different generic manufacturer but both merchandised by Walmart under their house brand.

 

[hodad]

Perennial candidate for Dumbest Person in Congress tests positive for COVID:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/29/louis-gohmert-who-refused-to-wear-a-mask-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-386076