covid politics

[crazydoc]

'We're Drowning': COVID Cases Flood Hospitals in America's Heartland
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/941500#vp_1

As cases spike in many conservative states and counties, medical workers say they often face a challenge just in convincing patients and local leaders that the disease should be taken seriously and isn't a Democrat-perpetuated hoax.

"There's a disconnect in the community, where we're seeing people at bars and restaurants, or planning Thanksgiving dinners," said Dr. Kelly Cawcutt, an infectious disease doctor at the University of Nebraska Medical Center. As health workers, she said, "we feel kind of dejected."

One patient at SSM Health in Janesville, Wisconsin, refused to believe COVID-19 was a serious threat, even as it consumed him, said Dr. Alison Schwartz, an infectious disease physician there. When he died, "the family did not want to admit this patient had died of COVID, because they didn't believe COVID kills people," she said.

 

[crazydoc]

Another way to look at it:

If this is a "war" against SARS-CoV-2, then there is a huge part of the population, led by their megalomaniacal narcissist, that is aiding and abetting the enemy by refusing to follow even the simple mitigation measures to try to defeat it. In a word, they are traitors. Why should the soldiers who are on the front lines of the conflict do anything for them? Let them die - at least that way they won't be spreading the virus to those who are fighting against it.

Harsh, I know, and they'd be hard to identify with certainty anyway. 

Or maybe there are ways. 

Mayor of Longmont wants to ban Weld County COVID-19 patients from using city's hospitals

LONGMONT, Colo. — The mayor of Longmont does not want the city’s two hospitals to treat COVID-19 patients from Weld County or any other county that refuses to comply with state restrictions.

Mayor Brian Bagley has asked city council to consider a proposed resolution that would make it “unlawful for any hospital (or healthcare provider) to provide medical services to any resident of a county or municipality wherein their elected officials have refused to comply with the governor’s emergency orders so long as there is a resident of a county or municipality that does comply with the governor’s emergency orders needing access to Longmont hospitals (or general healthcare services, medications, PPE equipment, etc.).”

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/mayor-of-longmont-wants-to-ban-weld-county-patients-from-using-citys-hospitals

 

[JohnRoberts]

That sounds more punitive than instructive, but I am not the medical professional here.

Listening to the amount of car traffic earlier today I worry that there may be some extra thanksgiving related community spread. I live on a main road so can literally hear unusual activity (busy this morning).

A thanksgiving spike might serve as a warning about family gatherings for Christmas...

Good luck to all...

Wash your hands, wear a mask, and try not to be too stupid (I know its hard).

JR

 

[crazydoc]

A thanksgiving spike might serve as a warning about family gatherings for Christmas...

After the thanksgiving gatherings, there might not be enough family alive and well enough to gather for xmas.

 

[Tubetec]

So much for joined up thinking both sides of the border here in Ireland,
The southern 26 counties come out of lockdown Dec 1st , tomorrow the 6 counties in the North come under a series of new control measures. Covid stats in the 6 counties are way worse per head than the south , now people are likely to be flooding back and forth to make the best of pre christmas shopping.

Lockdown part 1 was way more severe than the second time round here, law enforcement just dont have the manpower after completely over extending and burning out first time round. Numbers of cases are gradually coming down but it seems a spike is almost inevitable after silly season.

 

[JohnRoberts]

After the thanksgiving gatherings, there might not be enough family alive and well enough to gather for xmas.

I thought that the covid case fatality rate was low and falling (2.1%), but I suspect we need to threaten family death to scare the low information public.

JR 

PS: If we name the covid vaccine after President Trump will that cause the irrational haters to boycott it? We should protect even the idiots, so name it anything else. It won't be an issue until next year since vaccine will be in short supply for several months. The news media is still talking up unpleasant side effects and not the part where it could save your life (idiots).

 

[Script]

Too political. How about something more slick like I-Vaccine ? Oh, damn, copyright issues on the horizon... WE-Vaccine then ? However, this would imply a more inclusive stance but it might also insinuate that refusers stand somewhat counter the community. Or call it 'ReCOVerax'. Too much pathos... !?

-ax = potentially violent, so:

ReCOVerac2

 

[crazydoc]

I thought that the covid case fatality rate was low and falling (2.1%), but I suspect we need to threaten family death to scare the low information public.

I specifically said alive and well.

"For December 21, the forecasts estimate 6,700 to 30,000 new COVID-19 hospitalizations per day."  CDC

So depending on how how sick people are and how long their hospital stay, there will likely be hundreds of thousands in the hospital xmas week, not to mention those who are not sick enough for hospital admission and the long haulers who are not well for months afterwards.

 

[fazer]

and the long haulers who are not well for months afterwards.

This is what scares me.

That said we had 6 at thanksgiving dinner at home.  I’m sure all the governors imposing lockdowns followed their own rules.  Right.  You do the best you can and then you die. ???

So I heard the 1918 flu was more deadly.  Is that right?

 

[fazer]

Oh ya! Hope all the Americans here had a happy And safe virus free thanksgiving!

 

[cyrano]

So I heard the 1918 flu was more deadly.  Is that right?

I don't think you can tell if that's true or not.

The numbers for the 1918-1919 pandemic aren't complete. For some countries, there are no numbers. For other countries, they're just estimates.

Don't forget there was a war going on, making everything a bit biased and prone to be manipulated for propaganda's sake.

Besides, even today's numbers aren't always comparable either. Take India for example. Many infections, relatively few deaths. That could be because of malfunctioning reporting or a more hardened population. Or both, of course. I can't tell, but it makes me very uneasy to relate these figures to other countries.

 

[Tubetec]

As this pandemic kicked off I heard of someone who did a little looking at the so called Spanish flu, which incidentally turned out to be American flu after all 

The stories, symptoms and images were so bloody horrendous they gave up looking . Figures for the death toll vary a lot ,some suggesting more than 2 million deaths in Europe . Covid appears have caused the deaths of around 375,000 in Europe so far .

 

[JohnRoberts]

As this pandemic kicked off I heard of someone who did a little looking at the so called Spanish flu, which incidentally turned out to be American flu after all 

The stories, symptoms and images were so bloody horrendous they gave up looking . Figures for the death toll vary a lot ,some suggesting more than 2 million deaths in Europe. Covid appears have caused the deaths of around 375,000 in Europe so far .

The Spanish flu was named that suggesting where it originated. In the century plus since then healthcare capabilities have improved a lot, common sense not so much. If you do a deep dive on history there have been other plagues/pandemics that killed significant fractions of developed world population. Travel in olden times was not a serious vector for world wide spread like today. After WWI there was a lot of soldiers returning home from Europe to spread virus.
===
I enjoyed thanksgiving alone, as usual.

Several weeks ago I had a younger (long time) friend invite himself for an overnight visit when he was flying his private plane back across country from CA.  I didn't say no, but was not enthusiastic. For whatever reason (I think weather) cancelled that weekend visit, and after that he made alternate plans. I look forward to a future when I can entertain friends again.

I saw pretty high mask compliance at the post office today.  My daily WSJ didn't show up today (again) so the USPS is still worthless...

I track price/availability of N95 masks for sales to individuals on amazon... they are now finally available to consumers for purchase but seem expensive compared to pre pandemic pricing, but at least they are available.

Just read an editorial in WSJ suggesting that n95 masks are more effective than cloth masks.... duh.  :

JR   

 

[L´Andratté]

The Spanish flu was named that suggesting where it originated.

[quote author=Wikipeda]
The first observations of illness and mortality were documented in the United States (in Kansas and New York City, and months before, in December 1917, at Camp Greene, North Carolina),[6] France, Germany, and the United Kingdom. To maintain morale, World War I censors minimized these early reports. Newspapers were free to report the epidemic's effects in neutral Spain, such as the grave illness of King Alfonso XIII, and these stories created a false impression of Spain as especially hard hit. This gave rise to the name "Spanish" flu. Historical and epidemiological data are inadequate to identify with certainty the pandemic's geographic origin, with varying views as to its location. [/quote]
So, origin basically unclear.

The Venezuelan leader Simón Bolívar may have been accidentally poisoned by application of Spanish fly.

George Washington is thought to have been treated for epiglottitis (his cause of death) with Spanish Fly.

Sorry :

 

[cyrano]

There are a lot of misconceptions about pandemics. The plague, fi, is often cited to be caused by bad hygiene and transported by rats. That's not the case.

I have a couple of friends who have extensively studied the plague. One of them developed a model for analysis. It showed human travel to be far more important than previously believed. In one case, they could even follow the effect caused by one traveller.

Another thing you'll often read is that the plague killed about half the population in Europe. That's not exactly true either. In the period Europe dealt with the plague, around half the population died. A lot of them died because of the plague, but a lot of others died from famine. It was a period with a lot of bad summers, resulting in poor harvests. And nobody knows how many of those died from the plague.

You need a reasonable complete picture. Historians assume a lot. And even more gets lost in translation to popular science journals, or even schoolbooks.

 

[JohnRoberts]

there is some new drama about covid fatality statistics.

A John's Hopkins economist (Genevieve Briand) reported that routine deaths have been reclassified as Covid, inflating the COVID numbers.

Johns Hopkins withdrew their own published report (letter? COVID-19 Deaths: A Look at U.S. Data”. Nov/20) because it wasn't scary enough (my speculation).

Interesting times, rather than debating the economist's findings they suppress the study. There is a fair debate about how to weigh significant co-morbidities.

Maybe if they reported heart disease, and metabolic syndrome related deaths the way they report COVID they might scare some people into eating less turkey stuffing. 

Squashing valid questions just fuels the conspiracy nuts to believe the worst. There are competing perspectives about the seriousness of this pandemic. Understating it can clearly be harmful to public health but over stating it is not without unintended consequences.

The policy regarding in person schooling claims to be following the science, but does not really in my (unprofessional) judgement.

JR 

 

[CJ]

if people would swim in raw sewage once a year, then we would have herd immunity from everything.

even lo temp burgers from J Box.

 

[JohnRoberts]

if people would swim in raw sewage once a year, then we would have herd immunity from everything.

even lo temp burgers from J Box.

I will assume you are kidding...
===
When I was a young kid I was teased for eating dirt...  I should be cool then.  ;D

JR 

 

[hodad]

there is some new drama about covid fatality statistics.

A John's Hopkins economist (Genevieve Briand) reported that routine deaths have been reclassified as Covid, inflating the COVID numbers.

JR

https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2020/11/a-closer-look-at-u-s-deaths-due-to-covid-19?fbclid=IwAR0EVA8IwN8E5GG8rGb-FmMP0I9AJCgPUJZCdPbM5MqOn7NmUjKD7eutOnk

You can read why they chose to withdraw it, and you can also read the original article if you follow a link in this article.  Not really sure her claims are all that worthy of debate when it seems to be supported by falsehoods.

 

[Tubetec]

We've been Bog jumping in Ireland for generations , maybe there is an element of truth to what CJ is saying ,

https://youtu.be/q2MoonRYl8g