Cult DIY project: need your input

[bradb]

Kingston,

I agree my idea is a non-traditional view of M/S.. the Mid passes thru the M/S decoder and i've called it the center so we can do some separate processing on it.

In traditional mid/side, from the Mid/ side channels we get: Left = Mid + Side, Right = Mid - Side..  Two channels always, agreed.

EDIT:
Here's another way to look at it:  http://mixonline.com/gear/reviews/audio_rupert_neve_designs_2/
But again, this Neve device takes in a stereo signal, makes it M/S processes the L and R (while not touching the Mid) and outputs a Stereo signal.

 

[mcfarlane_audio]

i think the reasoning behind doing somethign " like xyz" is a)its a frightening amount of work to get in and design something completely new from scratch and b) i dont know how easy it will be for people to be willng to spend hundreds of dollars without having a refrence point to know waht its goin to sound like. i know its going to be amazing whatever it end up being but i dont know how many followers it would have

i wansnt saying
" lets clone a 2030" but more "lets do something based on that" ( i personally have no idea how the guts of one operates)

"but i also do like the channel strip idea as it can them be either a 2u rackmount idea or possibly build 8 or 16 into a custom frame as a mixer"

maybe im addicted to compression

 

[bradb]

Igor said:  "This should be something really usefull, repeatable, and new."

You said:  "its a frightening amount of work to get in and design something completely new from scratch"

but...

this is Igor we're talking about

 

[mcfarlane_audio]

alright, im in for whatever, i was just trying to save us (igor) some work,

i think a completely new project would be amazing to see here, there are many many geniuses here and would gladly welcome thier input over mine,

for me personally i dont see the point in just combining stuff we already have at our disposal, like a channel strip or adding in ms, but if im wrong then im wrong (it wouldnt be the first time)

your idea of ms intrests me but i dont fully understand the motivation behing it, do you want full control of left (side) right (side) and mid ?

this seems a little extreme as i find i rarely even have an excuse to move to ms in the first place, but again, maybe im wrong, and kingston is right thats into dsp, there is no other way

as far as im aware the portico is a traditional ms box it just doesnt give you any control over the mid it is stereo in stereo oou with ms encode and decode in the box, they have just opted to not include an insert for the mid and no contols for mid so there is nothing crazy going on there

 

[bradb]

maybe all this M/S stuff is crazy.  Please shoot it down or shoot it full of holes if its flawed or not useful.  I'm just riffin' here.

also, I agree with you... I don't see the point for combining existing stuff.  That's what patch cords are for. 

 

[keefaz]

What about a DOA using CFP, 2nd THD 30db higher than third and...

Ok, ok...  ;D

 

[ryansteele]

Yess!  ;D
8, or much better 16 line ch of phase adjust in a 3U or 4U case.
for each channel:
- 1 bypass switch
- 1 rotary switch for selecting bandwidth phase adjust
- 2 knobs for coarse/fine phase adjustments

A mixing stage box, not only for humbly realigning phases of mic'ed/reamp'ed signals, but for exploring new frontiers,.
Captain Kirk.. lets do it!

you know, i asked l*ttle l*bs if they had any plans for a multichannel IBP at AES like 2 years ago. they said no. too bad, it would be incredibly cool. although, now that the UAD plugin is out, its not so bad.

 

[iangomes]

so far i like the k&h ue-100 and the pye compressor ideas most. totally new stuff.

 

[1954U1]

Yess!  ;D
8, or much better 16 line ch of phase adjust in a 3U or 4U case.
for each channel:
- 1 bypass switch
- 1 rotary switch for selecting bandwidth phase adjust
- 2 knobs for coarse/fine phase adjustments

A mixing stage box, not only for humbly realigning phases of mic'ed/reamp'ed signals, but for exploring new frontiers,.
Captain Kirk.. lets do it!

you know, i asked l*ttle l*bs if they had any plans for a multichannel IBP at AES like 2 years ago. they said no. too bad, it would be incredibly cool. although, now that the UAD plugin is out, its not so bad.

Yes, too bad.
It would be an example of a true new thing.. at least for what I know..
[and what about the shame that there is a plugin doing that!  ]

 

[sysexguy]

We've sold several 4 ch IBP's factory mounted in one rack space, the only small drawback is that there are 2 remote power supplies that need to be connected.

Andy

 

[tommypiper]

EDIT:
Here's another way to look at it:  http://mixonline.com/gear/reviews/audio_rupert_neve_designs_2/
But again, this Neve device takes in a stereo signal, makes it M/S processes the L and R (while not touching the Mid) and outputs a Stereo signal.

BradB, see my second post on the previous page (page 7).

 

[tommypiper]

Guys, the Little Labs phase align box is not something new.  Igor wants to do something new.  Something which isn't a clone.  As I mentioned on page 7, that type of unit could be a separate project, and could be just as useful as a stand-alone box/project.  I'm all for something like that, but it doesn't seem to be the new thing in itself which Igor is suggesting.

However...  Integrating it into another design which would create something totally new, something you couldn't do by patching the boxes together is what Igor might have in mind, and would fit his request for a new idea.

M/S in a new context can offer all kinds of effects and manipulation that we normally don't have access to in any studio.  Combining this with phase-align in a new way, could really be wild.  Adding a pre, compressor/limiter, maybe some EQ, maybe some color, you have a box that will do just about anything.  A box for tracking, mixing, mastering.  A box that can twist your audio like no other boxes. 8)

Adding many of these boxes together and you might have a mixer... that may be a stretch, but I'm going with what you all have been tossing out there... 

 

[bradb]

Tommypiper....You KNOW I don't actually read other posts!! 


that 3 signal matrix (+ Side, - Side and Mid) and be done in a Daw easily... so maybe having the Mid and side input is a waste.  so scratch that from my idea....thats cool!

SO lets input a stereo signal, break it into Center (L+R) and L and R and have a simple EQ, some kind of subtle distortion then process all three with 3 channels of UNIQUE compression and then blend (with control for width) back to a stereo pair.

I think if we made the controls and character cool and USEFUL for this application (a MIXING application), we could end up with something new.

and it would work on STEREO signals, not just Mid-side recorded tracks!

 

[TomWaterman]

There are a few nuggets yet to be cracked here:

Tape simuator - something along the lines of a Fatso, Anamod or RND5042. However I just got a Fatso so... ;D

Moduar mixing platform - summing with features is one area where DIY proves difficult. You aready have many designs here. I foresee this being popuar. It would save me a lot of work!

How about channel strips - line inputs, inserts, metering, blends, routing, TX direct out, auxes, pans and faders. Two mixbuss options, one passive transformer combiner, one active. Carefully linked to a centre section. Upto 8 subgroups with inserts, direct buss access for DAW returns that do not go through channel strips. Expandable. Perhaps bucket summed. All IC with options for DOA. Transformer outputs?? Link it to your control room section.

Excellent quality 2 to 3way studio monitor - very subjective. I'd like to see 40-20k response, tight group delay and transient performance, great off-axis response (vertical too) and imaging. No midrange dip or HF rise, no fake ported bass. Honesty in a box.

Affordabe hardware Plate verb.

AD/DA converters. This one is huge. A nugget sure to be popular. AES I/O, 8ch blocks so one could build 8 I/O in a 1U box, or 16 ins or 16 outs etc. Perhaps discrete I/O, maybe even with transformer option.

Personally I'd vote for the modular AD/DA or the Mixer. With the Plate and Tape coming in second place.

On the other hand I'd like to see the following (something I am working on already but very slowly).

VCA buss comp:

Switched ratios
Variable threshold
Switched attack/release
Fully variable S/C HPF and LPF which can also be assigned to the wet compressed (pre VCA) path to compress part of freq range to bend in with dry.
Wet/dry blend
Peak/RMS detection with CV blend
Ext sidechain input
Feedforward/feedbackward mode
Tilt EQ at the output, two centre freqs.
Transformer output
Highy accurate G.R metering
Gain Reduction Limit (ala mpressor) this thing is amazing! Punchy as f*%k.

Personally the ADDA converters are the hardest for most DIY'ers and likely the most popuar thing never considered.

-T

 

[bradb]

Igor, what do you think of the discussion so far?

 

[Arno]

No signs from Igor...

He probably ran away 

 

[tmuikku]

Digital stuff:
I recall Igor has some programming skills(and possibly many others too), so how about some universal software/hardwarecontroller combo thingy that could rather easily be applied to any analog gear? Toss in motorized knobs or anything controllable, connect cable from controller (hub style?), calibrate, assign from DAW.

Remote software to iPhone to control anything in your DAW. Could be usefull when hustling alone. That motion/direction sensing stuff in iPhone could be used to make crazy stuff with effects / synths.

Analog:
Mastering compressor that gives you a jolt if dynamics go too small

 

[tommypiper]

Igor said in the 33609 thread that he is not going to be available for a while, due to non-audio projects taking up his life in the short-term (or something like that IIRC) but he would return in a few weeks or so.

BradB, thanks.  Gotcha. 

 

[tommypiper]

Tape simuator - something along the lines of a Fatso, Anamod or RND5042. However I just got a Fatso so... ;D

Moduar mixing platform - summing with features is one area where DIY proves difficult. You aready have many designs here. I foresee this being popuar. It would save me a lot of work!

How about channel strips - line inputs, inserts, metering, blends, routing, TX direct out, auxes, pans and faders. Two mixbuss options, one passive transformer combiner, one active. Carefully linked to a centre section. Upto 8 subgroups with inserts, direct buss access for DAW returns that do not go through channel strips. Expandable. Perhaps bucket summed. All IC with options for DOA. Transformer outputs?? Link it to your control room section.

Excellent quality 2 to 3way studio monitor - very subjective. I'd like to see 40-20k response, tight group delay and transient performance, great off-axis response (vertical too) and imaging. No midrange dip or HF rise, no fake ported bass. Honesty in a box.

Affordabe hardware Plate verb.

AD/DA converters. This one is huge. A nugget sure to be popular. AES I/O, 8ch blocks so one could build 8 I/O in a 1U box, or 16 ins or 16 outs etc. Perhaps discrete I/O, maybe even with transformer option.

Personally I'd vote for the modular AD/DA or the Mixer. With the Plate and Tape coming in second place.

On the other hand I'd like to see the following (something I am working on already but very slowly).

VCA buss comp:

...
Personally the ADDA converters are the hardest for most DIY'ers and likely the most popuar thing never considered.

All good.

However...
Tape Stimulators are commercial shipping products.  And there are plug ins. 
Mixing platform.  We already can make passive mixers and patch everything we need together.
Studio Speakers.  What?  There a million kits and designs already out there which are excellent.
Plate Reverb.  Already shipping in parts/kits, designs are out there.  What would Igor add to that?
A/D D/A.  Sure.  But there are already excellent stock products shipping.  Plus kits and designs for audiophiles are out there. Nothing new.
VCA bus Comp.  Igor did say the GSSL needs a redesign.  But again, this is not new.  Just tweaked.

 

[tommypiper]

Digital stuff:
I recall Igor has some programming skills(and possibly many others too), so how about some universal software/hardwarecontroller combo thingy that could rather easily be applied to any analog gear? Toss in motorized knobs or anything controllable, connect cable from controller (hub style?), calibrate, assign from DAW.

Remote software to iPhone to control anything in your DAW. Could be usefull when hustling alone. That motion/direction sensing stuff in iPhone could be used to make crazy stuff with effects / synths.

Motorized knobs... univeral software... iPhone integration.  Cool.  But, man.   You're talking on the wrong forum, my friend.  We'd need an Apple developer (or two) onboard.