Current MXL 603s still a good basis for mods?

[shaggy]

Been following MXL 603 mods for awhile now, and just bought a pair to look at.
Last I read, posted some 6 mos ago, was (marik, I think) posted that the newer-production caps aren't up to the quality of the earlier ones. Is this true? Has anyone bought some 603s recently and been able to tell if they're still as worthwhile a basis for mods as they were a few years ago - or has production quality been lowered, and maybe there are better alternatives?

thanks
Shaggy

 

[pucho812]

Do the mods... will be better then stock.

 

[shaggy]

Done. The coupling caps at least:

 

[kato]

In poker, they call that thowing good money after bad.

 

[terrapin]

Disagree with you, kato.  Got some of the best acoustic guitar sounds with modded 603's.  Have found them also able to hang in there with akg 451's on drum overheads for a nice 70's tone.  Granted-besides the capsule/transistor coupling cap I also stuffed in larger film caps on the output.  That really extendend the bottom end.

 

[shaggy]

In poker, they call that thowing good money after bad.

LOL. I wish. Unfortunately I usually waste way more money than this!

I think the polystyrenes (910pF) were 40c apiece, the WIMAs (.33u/63V) were free, pulled from old PC boards. The mics were $48 each w/ free shipping. The good thing about them is I feel free to stick 'em in places I'd never put my good mics, and they actually don't sound too bad.

 

[abechap024]

pulled from old PC boards.

Seriously. I've found so many nice poly caps in old CRT monitors. And you cant give those things away anymore!
mods look great!

 

[shaggy]

Thanks. Yeah, the ham radio swaps are my second home. Top shelf hardware and components for pennies on the dollar. God Bless Silicon Valley!  ;D

 

[abechap024]

I cant believe how much STUFF gets literally thrown away in America.

I guy down the street used to run a computer recycling business, just out of his house. One day he had a huge semi parked infront of his house loaded with computers/Vcrs/electronics to take to the dump. Probably at least 500 computers. I asked him if I could possibly help him in return for some of the stuff. He let me have whatever I could fit into my car.

The computers might have been broken but I got a bunch of 100gig+  harddrives and a ton of ELNA capacitors and lots of high quality poly props. And I was only able to fit a tiny tiny fraction in my car. I hate to think of ALL the perfectly good components/parts that are laying in landfills everywhere.

Abe

 

[abechap024]

oh and to add somthing topic related ;D

I am using 2 603 capsules (same kind used in 990s) to make a stereo microphone with the royer mod. For the money its a great investment!

Used them in c37a mods and they do work fine too!. Great for rock stuff

 

[mitsos]

Wasn't marik offering upgraded capsules for these mics at some point?  That would be quite a bit more $$ than swapping capacitors, but would likely make more of a difference.  No real idea though, haven't ever tried these mics. OK, back to your discussion.

 

[abechap024]

yea, I saw pictures of mariks capsules. Looked ultra nice. anyone know if hes still offering?
AC

 

[shaggy]

oh and to add somthing topic related ;D

I am using 2 603 capsules (same kind used in 990s) to make a stereo microphone with the royer mod. For the money its a great investment!

Used them in c37a mods and they do work fine too!. Great for rock stuff

That's interesting... I've thought you could re-house two 603 PCBs in a tube (or practically anything) and mount two capsules X-Y style on top. Maybe even improve the acoustics of the capsule housing while you're at it.

BTW I PM'd marik a few weeks ago about these capsules, and he said he wasn't currently working on them, but might again at some point.

 

[shaggy]

Wasn't marik offering upgraded capsules for these mics at some point?  That would be quite a bit more $$ than swapping capacitors, but would likely make more of a difference.  No real idea though, haven't ever tried these mics. OK, back to your discussion.

(see post below, re marik capsule mods) I think marik was adding a perforated disc/baffle to the back of the capsule, over the top of the existing one. I was interested in how you'd figure out the acoustics of the capsule chamber the way he was talking about - achieving different tonal variations and such by means of tuning the discs. I'm not sure if it was an intuitive/trial and error kind of thing he was doing, or somewhat mathematics-based, as he never seemed to want go into too much detail(!) I imagine you could spend months trial-and-erroring and A/B-ing different discs. The caps swap is easy - you know you've put in a better capacitor, and that's that. For me, anyway.

 

[mitsos]

I understand your point about the cap(acitors). But still, the main thing in any mic is the capsule, so to me it seems the most obvious weak point in any economically priced mic.  I also remember something a bit more interesting, there was a guy here offering adapters (I think) for these mics to be able to use AKG capsules with them. That would be more money of course, but at least you know the capsules you'd be using would not hold the mic back. 

 

[abechap024]

yes, the capsule really IS the mic. all the other circuitry just helps it interface with outside world.

I would be interested on how to upgrade capsules and re tune them...
I dont have the money to spend $200+ a pop on a new capsule but sure wouldn't mind ruining a few cheap ones to try and learn how to build a better one.

 

[mitsos]

Abe, you are a glutton for punishment.. building vcas AND mic capsules! 

When all's said and done you'll def spend more making a capsule than buying an AKG. And, unless you are super successful and can sell some to others, you'll be way in the hole by the time all's said and done.

Also, I believe (I could be wrong) that Marik was also re machining the outside metal casing of the capsules. I seem to remember something about them being further forward, IOW, there was less stuff between the front of the mic and the front of the capsule. This is not as simple as the disc part (which may or may not be simple at all, I'm going by what it sounds like here). I'm pretty sure he has machining equipment. I can imagine he wouldn't want to go into detail as he was offering these for sale.  At the end of the day, if it's not too expensive, I think buying Marik's modded capsules would be a better investment, since he's done all the hard work for you.  I don't remember what they were selling for or if he's offering them anymore.

Did a bit of a search and it seems Marik did his own capsule adapters.

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=39165.0

 

[shaggy]

The whole thing about the 603 mic project was that the capsule is/was supposed to be quite decent to begin with - or else who would even have bothered with this mic? (If you'll notice, my question in the OP is as to whether later manufacture caps are STILL as good as they were in the beginning).

IMO, once you start pouring money (custom-made capsules, etc) into something like this, the whole thing loses any sense of proportion. For one thing, the build quality (PCBs, metalwork, everything) is pretty poor - I mean barely good enough to make the grade as a serviceable mic, IMO. It is what it is, a 'user' mic, handy to fill in the gaps, or until you can afford better.

BTW, the machining you mentioned would be extremely easy for anyone with basic machine shop skills and a small lathe. A small pin wrench such as watchmakers use is required to loosen the capsule retaining ring. After dismantling the capsule, it's just a matter of turning down the front of the housing, and/or removing any other unecessary obstruction to the diaphragm. I will probably do this when I have the time, but it barely seems worth it to me.

Successfully re-tuning the rear baffle (if that was the goal) is more interesting, and potentially much more technical... Or perhaps just requires more trial and error!  ;D
.
For me, the 603 cost/effectiveness ratio lies at the point of replacing a handful of cheap caps - around $2.00, about 20 minutes work.

Just the ravings of a mic-crazed loony, for what it's worth... (.20c)
Dave

 

[abechap024]

HAha, yes

Abe, you are a glutton for punishment.. building vcas AND mic capsules! 

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=39165.0

Haha, Just something down the road. And I think your forgot the key word now is "TRYING" till I get something that works.  Seems very fascinating. But I think your right about all the machining involved. No easy DIY way around that.

I was recording a group the other day. And did NOT feel like putting one of my more expensive mics in front of the singer.  I ended up using a inexpensive Apex mic, sounded great for the style they were doing and, hey I was happy not having to worry about a nice mic getting ruined. And the singer was happy.

 

[mac]

Has anyone heard of using the B'ringer C2 or C4 as a starting point for the Royer 603 mod. Not as many 603's floating around in my part of the world as there are c2 and c4's.....

just worried that the stock capsules may be unusable sibilant crap....

Mac