Deaths from climate change

[cyrano]

I can't read minds but if the fines are less than the cost to mitigate the release it's just business to pay the lesser amount.

https://apnews.com/article/drones-business-climate-and-environment-0a1ab9be3427818cfe5f33521b9b05c2
Fines are 900$ a ton. To be raised to 1500$ in 2026. A pittance. Besides, they weren't gonna pay them anyways, as there wasn't a reliable method of measuring the leaks. Until now...

too... come on... please stop the rambling dissemination.

Have you ever considered going into politics? You seem to have some talent. I'm sure you would fit perfectly in some big oil thinkthank.

 

[cyrano]

Seems to me to be a fair summary of the current state of climate science.

Cheers

Ian

You know it isn't Ian. But lots of what the press brings could lead to that conclusion. I hope you get to talk to some of the scientists some day soon. It just might change your mind...

 

[JohnRoberts]

You know it isn't Ian. But lots of what the press brings could lead to that conclusion. I hope you get to talk to some of the scientists some day soon. It just might change your mind...

Ian is a scientist.... better informed than most who speak on the topic IMO.

Have you ever considered going into politics? You seem to have some talent. I'm sure you would fit perfectly in some big oil thinkthank.

I ASSume that is meant as an insult. I have said before multiple times that an honest politician could never get elected. I figured out long ago that I am not a good enough liar to be successful in politics. I couldn't even win at redneck corporate politics (real politics is much harder).

JR

 

[cyrano]

I really don't see why you see insults everywhere. It's OK if you call a person who cares about climate anything, but the other way around, it's not OK.

You'd be perfect as a politician, laughing away and ridiculising any argument that doesn't suit your views. Refusing to check out scientific papers since it seems you already know what's in those papers.

It's really sad that you believe an honest politician wouldn't get elected in the USA. I suppose that would mean the USA isn't a democracy, but an utterly rotten heap of corruption...

I don't know that much about US politics, especially on the state level, but I would hope there are honest, well meaning people in US politics too. Even in Russia and China, these exist.

It's sad that stuff like the anti-vax movement means some badly needed vaccines, like the one for Lyme's disease no longer are being manufactured, simply because the company producing them no longer feels there's a market for these. There are more and more people catching borelliosis and related diseases every year, but they'll have to suffer without medicine because the propaganda machine went beserk.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

It's really sad that you believe an honest politician wouldn't get elected in the USA. I suppose that would mean the USA isn't a democracy, but an utterly rotten heap of corruption...

I don't know that much about US politics,

Correct!

especially on the state level, but I would hope there are honest, well meaning people in US politics too. Even in Russia and China, these exist.

There are, and they get elected frequently. But one corrupt or ignorant politician can do a lot of damage.

It's sad that stuff like the anti-vax movement means some badly needed vaccines, like the one for Lyme's disease no longer are being manufactured, simply because the company producing them no longer feels there's a market for these.

Uh, your ignorance is showing. Lyme disease is treatable with antibiotics. The fact that the first vaccine was discontinued due to low demand has nothing to do with your imaginary anti-vax movement. If 70% of Americans are willing to get an experimental Covid shot, there's no "anti-vax" issue with Lyme vaccine demand. And there are newer vaccines for Lyme disease presently in stage 3 trials. Development and testing would not occur without some expectation of demand.

There are more and more people catching borelliosis and related diseases every year, but they'll have to suffer without medicine because the propaganda machine went beserk.

The simplest solution is best and that is to check your body (and your children's) for ticks after outdoors activities. We check ourselves and our dog after going out here. Have done so since I was a child. Removing the tick sooner reduces the chance of infection drastically with no cost and no side-effects.

 

[user 37518]

 

[user 37518]

More "believers" (as cyrano would say) trying to save the World:

 

[cyrano]

You don't know the first thing about Lyme's disease.

It's treatable with antibiotics, but that doesn't always work. There are other diseases, caused by other spyrochetes that are transmitted by ticks and some of those can't be treated yet. Vaccines for these were being developed, but those have been abandoned. It's the manufacturer that declared this was because of "the strong anti-vax feelings in the USA". Certainly not for a lack of demand. There's a new vaccine for borelliosis being tested now, from Valneva and Pfizer who look at the international market.

It's ironic, but a vaccine for dogs has been around for years and seems to sell well. Currently, almost half a million people in the USA suffer from Borreliosis, according to the CDC. The other diseases caused by spyrochetes can not be easily enumerated, since there are no reliable and simple tests yet. There is one for TBE (tick borne encephalitis), but I haven't seen any numbers on that. It is lethal in some cases.

Info here:

https://www.froedtert.com/stories/n...accine in Clinical,try to prevent tick bites.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I really don't see why you see insults everywhere.

perhaps its expectation bias...

It's OK if you call a person who cares about climate anything, but the other way around, it's not OK.

I care about climate, but I am not going to sacrifice human welfare for some hysterical hypothetical apocalypse.

You'd be perfect as a politician, laughing away and ridiculising any argument that doesn't suit your views.

I hold politicians in low regard, I expect you do too which explains your suggestion I would be perfect as a politician. Am I imagining that logic?

Refusing to check out scientific papers since it seems you already know what's in those papers.

I check out a number of them and occasionally post about notable ones here. I don't see a lot, more often examples of faulty conclusions. The most interesting climate paper I saw recently was about a negative feedback loop associated with cloud formation (I don't think it was conclusively proved but damn interesting).

It's really sad that you believe an honest politician wouldn't get elected in the USA.

Voters generally vote their self interest, to that end corrupt politicians make promises that they cannot legally keep, like promising to forgive student loan debt.

I suppose that would mean the USA isn't a democracy, but an utterly rotten heap of corruption...

No it isn't, we are a republic, and corruption is certainly on the increase, while mainstream media is doing their best to ignore it.

I don't know that much about US politics, especially on the state level, but I would hope there are honest, well meaning people in US politics too. Even in Russia and China, these exist.

many are well intentioned and probably enter politics as honest citizens, while the profligate spending, and compelling desire to get re-elected drives politicians to make deals and promises, publicly and privately. Of course this isn't every politician. I have more respect for the ones who retire early in disgust, than the ones who hold their nose so they can grow old and wealthy in office.

It's sad that stuff like the anti-vax movement means some badly needed vaccines, like the one for Lyme's disease no longer are being manufactured, simply because the company producing them no longer feels there's a market for these. There are more and more people catching borelliosis and related diseases every year, but they'll have to suffer without medicine because the propaganda machine went beserk.

The anti-vax movement has mostly been fringe, but some of the heavy handed covid mis-management by the government has given vaccines a bad name.
===
With ticks you have to be careful that their head does not break off inside you. An old redneck trick is to touch a hot match to the tick's backside and they will generally pull out.

JR

 

[user 37518]

https://www.froedtert.com/stories/n...accine in Clinical,try to prevent tick bites.

I hope it is more effective than the Covid vaccine, and that it doesn't require a bazillion boosters with the risk of still getting infected anyway.

 

[cyrano]

I hope it is more effective than the Covid vaccine, and that it doesn't require a bazillion boosters with the risk of still getting infected anyway.

It needs boosters too, as it isn't a longterm vaccine. But you might want to read up about different vaccines, as this one will also cure ticks that bite you after you've been vaccinated.

Scientists who study ticks have also been working on a vaccine for the animals that get infected by ticks. The one exception that doesn't need it, is the possum. It's immune system is geared towards klilling whatever bacterium might be present. That's not so strange, as the possum's diet consists of ticks for a large part.

 

[cyrano]

The anti-vax movement has mostly been fringe, but some of the heavy handed covid mis-management by the government has given vaccines a bad name.

Really? So it's the other side's fault, as usual. There isn't a propaganda machine at work? Who finances the hundreds of websites and other media spreading lies about vaccines?

Oh, right. It's people like Musk. He recently was amazed his company needs to abide to European laws too.

With ticks you have to be careful that their head does not break off inside you. An old redneck trick is to touch a hot match to the tick's backside and they will generally pull out.

That's very old news, John. And not even relevant to spyrochetes. If the head remains on your skin, it can cause an infection. That can be bad, but it's also easily treatable, not like the infections you get from spyrochetes.

What's still a pertinent question, though, is if mosquitos spread borelliosis and other diseases. Afaik, there's only one paper about it, from the Czech republic. That study found 11% of mosquitos infected with Borrelia. There's no proof that humans got infected by mosquitos, but in a lot of cases that test positive for borelliosis, the tick isn't found and the infection is still attributed to ticks.

If you factor in that Aedes albopictus (tiger mosquito) has survived European winter for the first time this year, it's a bit worrying. There's no immune respons in the population for a number of tropical diseases and there are no vaccines yet for most of them. Even malaria is still a threat.

There are a lot more things to consider when looking at climate change. But diseases seem to be coming from the north (defrosting permafrost) and the south (species moving north because it's getting warmer).

Of course, it's much simpler just to deny everything and keep sticking your head in the sand.

 

[Tubetec]

Here the old fashioned way to remove ticks was a splash of 'Uisce Beatha' or extra strenght moonshine if you happened to have it ,
When the tick is doused with the liquid it rapidly disengages from the host ,
Side benefits of local disinfection of the wound site also .
In the modern day a medical swab could be used ,

I never got a tick bite , but I did hear a story once , a guy I know , one summer day ,had a few drinks of an afternoon and lay down in long grass for a nap after .
When he awoke he had cluster of ticks engorging themselves right on his 'bawbag' ,

 

[JohnRoberts]

Really? So it's the other side's fault, as usual.

I said fringe not liberal/progressive. I suspect the fringe comes from both (all) sides.

There isn't a propaganda machine at work? Who finances the hundreds of websites and other media spreading lies about vaccines?

good question, not me

Oh, right. It's people like Musk. He recently was amazed his company needs to abide to European laws too.

I respect Musk for his technological developments, not so much for his drawing upon government subsidies to fuel his sundry businesses. The highest profile anti-vaxxer around these days is RFK Jr, but even his screed about vaccines is nuanced, and not just opposed to all vaccines.

That's very old news, John. And not even relevant to spyrochetes. If the head remains on your skin, it can cause an infection. That can be bad, but it's also easily treatable, not like the infections you get from spyrochetes.

just feeding the veer as a more interesting topic than this.

What's still a pertinent question, though, is if mosquitos spread borelliosis and other diseases. Afaik, there's only one paper about it, from the Czech republic. That study found 11% of mosquitos infected with Borrelia. There's no proof that humans got infected by mosquitos, but in a lot of cases that test positive for borelliosis, the tick isn't found and the infection is still attributed to ticks.

If you factor in that Aedes albopictus (tiger mosquito) has survived European winter for the first time this year, it's a bit worrying. There's no immune respons in the population for a number of tropical diseases and there are no vaccines yet for most of them. Even malaria is still a threat.

I recently wrote about Malaria, it was one of the early chapters in Lomborg's new book about low hanging fruit that can be solved with only modest amounts of spending. Mosquito nets treated with insecticide are apparently very effective and relatively cheap, but still inadequate availability in poor nations.

There are a lot more things to consider when looking at climate change. But diseases seem to be coming from the north (defrosting permafrost) and the south (species moving north because it's getting warmer).

That sound's like more fear mongering. Even if those scares are true, since global warming is extremely very slow moving we can anticipate, prepare, and adapt to changes. It takes wealth to make these changes and anti-human energy policies leave us with less wealth to help the poorest among us adapt.

Of course, it's much simpler just to deny everything and keep sticking your head in the sand.

I will continue to disagree with any overly restrictive energy policy that I see as harmful to human development.

JR

 

[cyrano]

Ticks like warm, somewhat moist places on your body...

It's the Asian ones that are real scary. They hide in the trees and have infrared vision. As soon as something warm passes underneath they drop onto their victim. That's why the safari hat exists.

Also, the spyrochetes they carry are somewhat creepier. There's one that nestles in the victim's brain and causes insanity. You die laughing, while experiencing excruciating pain. The tribes in the golden triangle have a social contract: those who get the disease will be jointly murdered by the tribe, to prevent the worst suffering. Of course, Australia has their own and these not only cause Ricketsia, but also meat allergy...

 

[cyrano]

I respect Musk for his technological developments, not so much for his drawing upon government subsidies to fuel his sundry businesses. The highest profile anti-vaxxer around these days is RFK Jr, but even his screed about vaccines is nuanced, and not just opposed to all vaccines.

Which technological developments?

He's good at marketing, in his own way. But afaict he sucks as an engineer. He didn't start Tesla and didn't design the cars they sell.

I recently wrote about Malaria, it was one of the early chapters in Lomborg's new book about low hanging fruit that can be solved with only modest amounts of spending. Mosquito nets treated with insecticide are apparently very effective and relatively cheap, but still inadequate availability in poor nations.

Spreading opinions like that, is almost criminal. It's true that nets can help, but it's no good to those who are already suffering from the disease. Besides, it's not so easy to keep ALL the mosquito's out of the net, especially with children. And, obviously, you don't spend the entire day in your bed. It should be easy to understand that Lomborg is talking out of the wrong orifice. Unless you're a believer, of course.

The same can be said for DEET. It keeps the mosquito's away, but it doesn't last long enough, unless you're getting up at night to spread it over your skin. And DEET isn't exactly cheap, if the buyer is from a third-world country. Remember, in the most afflicted areas, you need to spread DEET about 20 times a day, making it too expensive for some.

That sound's like more fear mongering. Even if those scares are true, since global warming is extremely very slow moving we can anticipate, prepare, and adapt to changes. It takes wealth to make these changes and anti-human energy policies leave us with less wealth to help the poorest among us adapt.

The tiger mosquito first showed up in Europe some twenty years ago. Now they're here to stay. I understand if you won't worry about it, as you'll probably not live that long, but try to sell that lie to parents of young children. Malaria is a disease you carry with you for the rest of your life. And as long as mosquitos can bite infected people, the disease will spread.

I will continue to disagree with any overly restrictive energy policy that I see as harmful to human development.

That's really your adagium, isn't it? We need oil as it's cheap. May I remind you that it's only cheap in the USA? And perhaps, Saudi Arabia, that unholy US ally?

Besides, all the UN data about poverty show just one thing: it's education that's needed. Not oil. The Chinese communist party tried to get the Chinese to have less children with some draconian rules. They failed. Now that the majority of Chinese are educated, it happens naturally. China is no longer the country with the highest population in the world. That title goes to India now. We can all see the problems it is causing. Unless you close your eyes for reality.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Which technological developments?

There are a number of them I consider notable... one obvious one that comes to mind safely landing reusable rocket boosters. His boring company is interesting.

He's good at marketing, in his own way. But afaict he sucks as an engineer. He didn't start Tesla and didn't design the cars they sell.

He is apparently effective at managing and inspiring engineers. I managed an engineering group at peavey and it wasn't easy or trivial.

Spreading opinions like that, is almost criminal.

moi?

It's true that nets can help, but it's no good to those who are already suffering from the disease.

The intent is clearly to reduce new infection. The explanation I read suggested that the insecticide treated nets interfere with the mosquito reproduction cycle. The mosquitos already developed immunity to old insecticides increasing the cost of new nets due to newer more expensive insecticides.

Besides, it's not so easy to keep ALL the mosquito's out of the net, especially with children. And, obviously, you don't spend the entire day in your bed. It should be easy to understand that Lomborg is talking out of the wrong orifice. Unless you're a believer, of course.

I guess I am a believer.. he was paraphrasing research papers from experts in the several fields.

The same can be said for DEET. It keeps the mosquito's away, but it doesn't last long enough, unless you're getting up at night to spread it over your skin. And DEET isn't exactly cheap, if the buyer is from a third-world country. Remember, in the most afflicted areas, you need to spread DEET about 20 times a day, making it too expensive for some.



The tiger mosquito first showed up in Europe some twenty years ago. Now they're here to stay. I understand if you won't worry about it, as you'll probably not live that long, but try to sell that lie to parents of young children. Malaria is a disease you carry with you for the rest of your life. And as long as mosquitos can bite infected people, the disease will spread.

We had an issue here locally with West Nile virus several years back... As I recall I was still jogging back then and I would report dead birds I saw to the state health department because they were symptoms of the disease infestation. I recall the town spraying the rain ditches to suppress mosquitoes back then.

That's really your adagium, isn't it? We need oil as it's cheap. May I remind you that it's only cheap in the USA? And perhaps, Saudi Arabia, that unholy US ally?

I support an all of the above energy strategy. I was disappointed by President Biden for his restricting uranium mining from about 1 million acres around the Grand Canyon.

Besides, all the UN data about poverty show just one thing: it's education that's needed. Not oil.

UN? I say all energy, not necessarily just oil. Free trade is generally credited with raising people out of poverty, but in addition to trade, they need rule of law and property rights. Low cost energy improves everybody's quality of life. They can't read a text book in the dark.

The Chinese communist party tried to get the Chinese to have less children with some draconian rules. They failed. Now that the majority of Chinese are educated, it happens naturally. China is no longer the country with the highest population in the world. That title goes to India now. We can all see the problems it is causing. Unless you close your eyes for reality.

I am not sure what point you are tying to make. China's misguided family size management has come back to bite them (too many parents killed female babies wanting sons to support them in their old age). At the moment China is wrestling with multiple problems. Their newly educated young workers are not willing to perform unskilled labor so China is short of low level workers. China is also teetering on a deflationary cycle that can tank their economy for years if it becomes entrenched. They are the poster boy for the failures of communist central planning, while some from the west are jealous of their control.

JR

 

[cyrano]

I know free trade is generally credited in the USA with lifting people from poverty. Just part of the propaganda machine.

It can help, in some cases even substantially, if we're talking about a region where famine is chronic, for instance. But the only thing that helps every time, and with every region, is education. People will only be plundered by free trade if they can't read, write and count.

That's what the Chinese communist party has learned from their mistakes. And now the cat is out of the bag. Must be strange running a planned economy, while allowing vast personal wealth. They seem to need to remind their capitalists of that. I can see some Chinese banks going under in the near future. Possibly enough to move the hawks in the CP to the front. That would be bad news for Taiwan, Japan and the world.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

You don't know the first thing about Lyme's disease.

Oh, really? Having lived in rural areas with high tick populations and where Lyme is present for five decades, I expect I know at least as much as you do. I also researched the first Lyme vaccine on advice of a former physician. As I recall it wasn't covered by my insurance and having, at that time, 25 years experience checking for and removing ticks, I decided to skip it. I prefer to avoid unnecessary drugs and medications.

It's treatable with antibiotics, but that doesn't always work.

Nothing is 100%, but removal of ticks is pretty damned close.

There are other diseases, caused by other spyrochetes that are transmitted by ticks and some of those can't be treated yet.

Life is full of risks. I will not live in fear of every pathogen. A robust immune system and a healthy lifestyle are preferable to fear and overmedication.

Vaccines for these were being developed, but those have been abandoned. It's the manufacturer that declared this was because of "the strong anti-vax feelings in the USA".

Well, not everyone thinks the stuff is necessary. Why is that your concern? It isn't contagious.

Certainly not for a lack of demand. There's a new vaccine for borelliosis being tested now, from Valneva and Pfizer who look at the international market.

That's what I posted yesterday.

It's ironic, but a vaccine for dogs has been around for years and seems to sell well.

Because dogs aren't people and it is often very difficult to find all ticks on our furry friends. Have you owned a dog?

Currently, almost half a million people in the USA suffer from Borreliosis, according to the CDC.

And the vast majority will have mild symptoms and will recover completely thanks to their immune system.

The other diseases caused by spyrochetes can not be easily enumerated, since there are no reliable and simple tests yet.

So?

There is one for TBE (tick borne encephalitis), but I haven't seen any numbers on that. It is lethal in some cases.

So is Japanese encephalitis which is spread by mosquitoes. There's no vaccine for it. It is present in the Philippines where my in-laws live. I've been there six or eight times for a couple of weeks each trip. Life's too short to live in fear of every damned thing.

Info here:

https://www.froedtert.com/stories/n...accine in Clinical,try to prevent tick bites.

Great. Whatever.

 

[ruffrecords]

You know it isn't Ian. But lots of what the press brings could lead to that conclusion. I hope you get to talk to some of the scientists some day soon. It just might change your mind...

I was not talking about the press which is worse than useless and merely a tool of the zealots. It is not hard to find a range of current and historical data on the climate but even doing that from my armchair makes it clear that the evidence used to demonstrate global warming is heavily cherry picked and attribution of it to man made causes very often follows without any proof. Other causes of climate change are studiously ignored.

Cheers

Ian

 

[user 41968]

• It was the hottest July on record overall for the planet, not "hottest summer" in a specific city.
• "Consecutive days over 100F" isn't the measure for hottest July overall.
• If one did want to change the subject and use "days over 100F", total days would the more meaningful measure.
• We are mid-August, so do not have enough data to compare the overall year, summer, or total "consecutive days" of anything to past years.
• The chart is only for Dallas/Ft. Worth, not even Texas as a whole.
• The chart has no source.

Etc., etc.

Side note: I would not advise metal foil headwear in temperatures above 100F.

There are articles claiming that its the hottest in Texas and DFW dipstick.

The source is the National Weather Service.

 

[jabe]

There are articles claiming that its the hottest in Texas dipstick

Show them, then. Not just articles that say Texas is on track to be the hottest, or is having one of the hottest, or something else. Remembet, your uncredited chart used full years as datasets. To state the obvious, 2023 isn't over.

Warning: personal attacks prohibited and will be strictly moderated

 

[pucho812]

As a Texan by birth we are always on track for the hottest summer and or coldest winter. The news and others always report that. We haven’t been tracking weather for long in the grand scheme of things and surprisingly enough we have had worse or as bad before. My hometown gets snow once every hundred years. Seriously, we have had 2 known recorded times it snowed on the southern border and they were 100 years apart.
What does it all mean. Nothing in the long term. George Carlin had a huge bit on this and laughs aside is in point with it all.