Deaths from climate change

[Matador]

Warning: personal attacks prohibited and will be strictly moderated

 

[JohnRoberts]

105' in my side yard this afternoon. That's the hottest it has been since this morning.

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Hot and humid here. Typical August in the South. Or what we call "summer."

 

[fazer]

53 in the morning yesterday. Felt like fall. Got up to low 70s. Up to 84 today. Been a cooler wetter summer

 

[user 37518]

53 in the morning yesterday. Felt like fall. Got up to low 70s. Up to 84 today. Been a cooler wetter summer

You are going to get into trouble if you keep talking like that....

 

[Tubetec]

Damn, those memes are irritating user 37518

Its tough going sorting the salient points from the personal jibes in this topic ,
bit of a downer seeing it top of the list day in day out ,

One point of AP's I very much agree on is avoiding the use of scripted meds in favour of lifestyle adjustment , plenty of exercise ,reduction of sugar intake and keeping a close eye on both portion size and quality of food intake .

This throwaway consumer driven mentality which the electronics industry is a chief culprit ,
never sat well with me . Climate change or not anyone who tries to argue were not having a devastating impact on the planet we live in is away with the feckin' fairies ,

C02 targets are implausible , not only that but year on year the per capita C02 usage continues to rise ,
Take a look at the disparity in the average personal C02 usage over a lifetime between somewhere like California vs Bangladesh ,
Western civilisation ,as we like to call it , is 'scarfing up the planet and taking a dump on it '
to paraphrase Zappa

 

[Matador]

 

[JohnRoberts]

I am not sure that this belongs here but these days the weathermen (not climatemen) have chosen to blather about wildfires. I just heard about a study that blames wildfires for increased incidence of dementia. Reportedly very small smoke particles, small enough to cross the brain blood barrier are implicated. I don't think a surgical mask will help much against smaller than 2.5 micron particles.

JR

 

[user 37518]

That happened, what, 10-15 years ago? Nice find.....

 

[cyrano]

I was not talking about the press which is worse than useless and merely a tool of the zealots. It is not hard to find a range of current and historical data on the climate but even doing that from my armchair makes it clear that the evidence used to demonstrate global warming is heavily cherry picked and attribution of it to man made causes very often follows without any proof. Other causes of climate change are studiously ignored.

Cheers

Ian

I agree on the man-made part. There might just be other factors at play. But in my mind it doesn't matter much. The question is "should we try to fix it, or not?"

There is, however, sufficient evidence that greenhouse gases play a role. Nobody's telling us that it's the only factor.

The entire discussion no longer can be kept in the scientific realm, as it's completely polarised. Just like everything connected to vaccines. And that's a shame, as it will only lead to confusion and wasted resources. It enrages me that some seem to believe they understand it, while making fun of it.

 

[cyrano]

I am not sure that this belongs here but these days the weathermen (not climatemen) have chosen to blather about wildfires. I just heard about a study that blames wildfires for increased incidence of dementia. Reportedly very small smoke particles, small enough to cross the brain blood barrier are implicated. I don't think a surgical mask will help much against smaller than 2.5 micron particles.

JR

You "heard" about a study? That's part of the problem. Either you can present us with the contents of that study, or it's of no use to anyone.

I hope you do understand that large scale fires do influence the weather...

 

[AnalogPackrat]

I hope you do understand that large scale fires do influence the weather...

As they have since before proto-humans learned to make fire. Same with volcanoes and fissures where tectonic plates separate.

 

[user 37518]

I agree on the man-made part. There might just be other factors at play. But in my mind it doesn't matter much. The question is "should we try to fix it, or not?"

"fix it" how? Like Biden wants to do by dumping chemicals so sunlight is blocked? No, the chances of messing it up are worse. Second, fix exactly what and how? Is this the most pressing issue humanity is facing right now? Third, most likely we cannot fix anything, or should we "just stop oil"? The majority of pollutants are produced by countries that don't give a rat's ass about the environment, so, what the current solutions propose for the rest of the countries have an impact on temperature of what, some ppm of a degree? and over how many years? This is ridiculous.

 

[user 41968]

They're chem-trailing all of us with aluminum and barium oxide in order to set us on fire and burn us off our land.

Paradise, Maui and eventually your neighborhood...

 

[JohnRoberts]

You "heard" about a study? That's part of the problem. Either you can present us with the contents of that study, or it's of no use to anyone.

don't scold..... I thought if you were interested you could find it there can't be that many new studies. IIRC it was from Michigan.
======
xAdar and Zhang’s paper, “Comparison of Particulate Air Pollution From Different Emission Sources and Incident Dementia in the U.S.,” appears today in the Journal of the American Medical Association’s Internal Medicine.

Particulate Air Pollution and Incident Dementia in the US JAMA link

I hope you do understand that large scale fires do influence the weather...

I understand that many things influence weather....

JR

PS; I don't generally accept insulting homework assignments... this is your one freebie.

 

[scott2000]

They're chem-trailing all of us with aluminum and barium oxide in order to set us on fire and burn us off our land.

cleaner than tanks and bombs?

 

[ruffrecords]

I agree on the man-made part. There might just be other factors at play. But in my mind it doesn't matter much. The question is "should we try to fix it, or not?"

Unfortunately, mankind is so arrogant he thinks he can fix anything. Mother Nature knows better.

There is, however, sufficient evidence that greenhouse gases play a role. Nobody's telling us that it's the only factor.

No doubt at all although billions have been poured into studying one of the weakest ones (CO2) and almost nothing into research on the most prevalent one (water vapour). I dispute your statement that nobody is telling us greenhouse gases are the only factor. Seems to me that is exactly what they are doing. Global warming is caused by man made greenhouse gases is the mantra.

The entire discussion no longer can be kept in the scientific realm, as it's completely polarised. Just like everything connected to vaccines. And that's a shame, as it will only lead to confusion and wasted resources. It enrages me that some seem to believe they understand it, while making fun of it.

100% agree.

Cheers

Ian

 

[cyrano]

Unfortunately, mankind is so arrogant he thinks he can fix anything. Mother Nature knows better.

On a purely philosophical level, I agree. Not so on a practical level. We've abolished DDT and other mistakes.

No doubt at all although billions have been poured into studying one of the weakest ones (CO2) and almost nothing into research on the most prevalent one (water vapour). I dispute your statement that nobody is telling us greenhouse gases are the only factor. Seems to me that is exactly what they are doing. Global warming is caused by man made greenhouse gases is the mantra.

100% agree.

Cheers

Ian

Well, about water:

https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2023/08/carbon-dioxide-not-water-triggers-explosive-volcanoes
If CO2 triggers volcanic explosive eruptions, we need to find out if the rise in CO2 in the atmosphere plays a significant role or not?

These explosive eruptions are known to influence the weather and maybe even the climate?

 

[scott2000]

Well, about water:

https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2023/08/carbon-dioxide-not-water-triggers-explosive-volcanoes
If CO2 triggers volcanic explosive eruptions, we need to find out if the rise in CO2 in the atmosphere plays a significant role or not?

These explosive eruptions are known to influence the weather and maybe even the climate?

Doesn't it not tickle some synapse when the link mentions
"have long thought....now thanks to new tools..."
stuff like that...

 

[cyrano]

"fix it" how? Like Biden wants to do by dumping chemicals so sunlight is blocked? No, the chances of messing it up are worse. Second, fix exactly what and how? Is this the most pressing issue humanity is facing right now? Third, most likely we cannot fix anything, or should we "just stop oil"? The majority of pollutants are produced by countries that don't give a rat's ass about the environment, so, what the current solutions propose for the rest of the countries have an impact on temperature of what, some ppm of a degree? and over how many years? This is ridiculous.

The most important part, is to protect lower laying terrain. The Dutch know about that and will be prepared. I'm not so sure about fi, Florida.

"Fix it" perhaps is a bit too simple?

I think many different things need to be done. I don't see one global solution, even if progress has been made in storing CO2, there still will be other greenhouse gases to cater for. And the first thing to do, is let those who don't care about methane leaks in the oil industry face the consequences for their crimes. I believe some action is being undertaken, but I also fear that the fines aren't high enough to impress oil capitalists.

The most important part, however you see it, is that the bickering and the propaganda needs to stop, from both sides. And that's something I don't see happening any time soon, due to polarisation. The best example is that some keep blaming countries like China and India, without looking at their own wrongdoing.

Mother nature might just decide to let the human species disappear...

 

[cyrano]

don't scold..... I thought if you were interested you could find it there can't be that many new studies. IIRC it was from Michigan.
======
xAdar and Zhang’s paper, “Comparison of Particulate Air Pollution From Different Emission Sources and Incident Dementia in the U.S.,” appears today in the Journal of the American Medical Association’s Internal Medicine.

Particulate Air Pollution and Incident Dementia in the US JAMA link

I understand that many things influence weather....

JR

PS; I don't generally accept insulting homework assignments... this is your one freebie.

Again, no insult was meant. I really don't understand where you keep finding them.

Anyhow, thanks for the link. Nothing to be alarmed about. The study ends with "more research is needed". There is, however, another interesting study on that site:

excess mortality was significantly higher for Republican voters than Democratic voters after COVID-19 vaccines were available to all adults, but not before. These differences were concentrated in counties with lower vaccination rates, and primarily noted in voters residing in Ohio.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2807617
The conclusion seems very weak, if you take into account that conservatives are older? Or has that been compensated for?

 

[AnalogPackrat]

The most important part, is to protect lower laying terrain.

Why? How? By expending huge amounts of energy (in the form of diesel combustion) to move massive volumes of dirt and rock from higher terrain to build dikes and drainage canals? And the maintain those same structures for hundreds of years?

Water flows downhill. Always has, always will. How about simply not building cities where flooding is likely (whether it be from rain, storm surge, or whatever)?

The Dutch know about that and will be prepared. I'm not so sure about fi, Florida.

"Fix it" perhaps is a bit too simple?

You think? We can't even fix rabbits in Australia, feral pigs in Texas, and other much smaller and tractable problems, but you think we can control the climate? The climate that has changed for as long as life has existed on Earth?

I think many different things need to be done. I don't see one global solution, even if progress has been made in storing CO2, there still will be other greenhouse gases to cater for. And the first thing to do, is let those who don't care about methane leaks in the oil industry face the consequences for their crimes. I believe some action is being undertaken, but I also fear that the fines aren't high enough to impress oil capitalists.

You are the exemplar of what C.S. Lewis wrote about.

"
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals."

C. S. Lewis

The most important part, however you see it, is that the bickering and the propaganda needs to stop, from both sides. And that's something I don't see happening any time soon, due to polarisation.

Polarization isn't the root cause. It's powerful humans trying to control the masses by fear. This is just a more recent example of what has happened for millenia. "Climate change" is just a useful tool for manipulation.

The best example is that some keep blaming countries like China and India, without looking at their own wrongdoing.

If "fixing" our own "wrongdoing" pales in comparison to those of China and India, what is the point? Have you no grand solution for those places?

Mother nature might just decide to let the human species disappear...

Welcome to reality. The universe does not care about you or me. Try to gain some perspective on just how little control we actually have over our situation in the bigger picture and enjoy the ride. Or maybe you also have a "fix" for supernovae, asteroid/comet impacts, stellar evolution, etc.

 

[jabe]

The conclusion seems very weak, if you take into account that conservatives are older? Or has that been compensated for?

It was FWIW. "A cross-sectional comparison of excess mortality between registered Republican and Democratic voters between March 2020 and December 2021 adjusted for age and state of voter registration was conducted."