Diy Monitors - to build or not to build
- Thread starter PatinaCreme
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
i wouldn't mind in building some "larger speaker according to information/insight Thomas Barefoot wishes to share with us.
I already have too much smaller speaker floating around, this h-just isn't to interesting to me (what he heck! another pair can never be to much!!)
Any followers?
Tony
I already have too much smaller speaker floating around, this h-just isn't to interesting to me (what he heck! another pair can never be to much!!)
Any followers?
Tony
mshilarious
Well-known member
[quote author="Amo Audio"]Can you buy crossovers or is it something requiring assembly? I'll find out what the insulation situation is like as soon as i have a chance to open them up...[/quote]
You can buy prefab ones from a number of vendors, partsexpress is one. I had Madisound design & build my crossovers, it was quite reasonable.
I can post the part #s I used if you like, although from the look of that cabinet you'd need to select a different tweeter than I used.
By the way what did you find for a crossover inside?
You can buy prefab ones from a number of vendors, partsexpress is one. I had Madisound design & build my crossovers, it was quite reasonable.
I can post the part #s I used if you like, although from the look of that cabinet you'd need to select a different tweeter than I used.
By the way what did you find for a crossover inside?
PatinaCreme
Well-known member
What do you guys think of these plans?
http://www.audiocomponents.nl/speakers/scanspeak/reference/scanspeak-reference_eng.htm
Maybe a group build?
Anyone?
Patina
http://www.audiocomponents.nl/speakers/scanspeak/reference/scanspeak-reference_eng.htm
Maybe a group build?
Anyone?
Patina
SonsOfThunder
Well-known member
[quote author="tony dB"]try fiberglass instead and report us the difference...[/quote]Back in the day, we always shunned fiberglas because some people said that stray fibers could get into a voice coil and trash the driver. Never saw that myself though.
Waaay on the horizon, I want to build a set of "big" monitors with a coax 15.
Like this one maybe
This one is a little cheaper
Peace!
Waaay on the horizon, I want to build a set of "big" monitors with a coax 15.
Like this one maybe
This one is a little cheaper
Peace!
mhelin
Well-known member
[quote author="barefoot"]
I suggest a 6" 2-way using mid priced drivers ? so a lot of folks can afford to build it.
Any thoughts?
Thomas[/quote]
This one would be good one to start with:
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/DD8-MkII.html
For nearfield use you might need to drop the tweeter level by adjusting the L-PAD resistors R3 and R4. Also you might need heavier baffle step compensation (I've heard that Tony's speakers are a little bit bass shy bu their nature), something from 1.5 mH to 2.5 mH depending on speaker placement for L2. You could use serial inductors that could be bypassed by a switch to adjust bass levels (or tweeter levels similarly).
Anyway, it would be better to make an active monitor and put xovers and baffle step compensation filters into external rack unit. Hypex class-D UCD180 (or 400) modules would make nice and quiet power amps. Then add a DSP xover with phase linear 90 dB/oct filters made of Alesis DSP chips (1KM). That way you could take full advantage of those aluminium Seas elements and avoid nasty resonances.
I suggest a 6" 2-way using mid priced drivers ? so a lot of folks can afford to build it.
Any thoughts?
Thomas[/quote]
This one would be good one to start with:
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/DD8-MkII.html
For nearfield use you might need to drop the tweeter level by adjusting the L-PAD resistors R3 and R4. Also you might need heavier baffle step compensation (I've heard that Tony's speakers are a little bit bass shy bu their nature), something from 1.5 mH to 2.5 mH depending on speaker placement for L2. You could use serial inductors that could be bypassed by a switch to adjust bass levels (or tweeter levels similarly).
Anyway, it would be better to make an active monitor and put xovers and baffle step compensation filters into external rack unit. Hypex class-D UCD180 (or 400) modules would make nice and quiet power amps. Then add a DSP xover with phase linear 90 dB/oct filters made of Alesis DSP chips (1KM). That way you could take full advantage of those aluminium Seas elements and avoid nasty resonances.
SonsOfThunder
Well-known member
i've got a 12" woofer that I've thought about using to make a sub. It all comes back to the issue of free time!
I eventually want to have a set of BIGs, for the wow factor if nothing else. Maybe I'll just never get around to it though.
Peace!
I eventually want to have a set of BIGs, for the wow factor if nothing else. Maybe I'll just never get around to it though.
Peace!
Kev
Well-known member
[quote author="mhelin"]
This one would be good one to start with:
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/DD8-MkII.html[/quote]
on paper it does look good
nice individual components and looks like he did put some work into the detail.
I'm not a great fan of aluminium elements generally.
If you were to be adding the sub then the box size could be made smaller and sacrifice the lows.
... what is the overall efficiency of this one ?
This one would be good one to start with:
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/DD8-MkII.html[/quote]
on paper it does look good
nice individual components and looks like he did put some work into the detail.
I'm not a great fan of aluminium elements generally.
If you were to be adding the sub then the box size could be made smaller and sacrifice the lows.
... what is the overall efficiency of this one ?
SonsOfThunder
Well-known member
[quote author="Kev"]I'm not a great fan of aluminium elements generally.[/quote]
Looks like there was something that he didn't like there either as evidenced by C3/L3. Waterfalls sure look impressive, but that doesn't always mean it will sound good...
HTH!
Looks like there was something that he didn't like there either as evidenced by C3/L3. Waterfalls sure look impressive, but that doesn't always mean it will sound good...
He doesn't say but you could probably take a guess from the eff of the 6.5 and subtract a couple of dB due to the xover.
HTH!
mhelin
Well-known member
Seas drivers aren't particularly efficient. I've got these speakers and their efficiency is just 85 dB (the drivers aren't quite stock though):
http://www.amphion.fi/products/argon2/argon2frame5.htm
Al drivers produce nice and accurate bass and transients. Need steep xover. Argon2 crosses @1200Hz btw. That waveguide boosts the tweeter response a lot (at least 6 dB @ 1 kHz), reduces tweeter cone excursion and makes the off-axis response (directivity) more uniform. However, you can't use similar large wg for near-field listening. Coaxial driver would work fine though, see Tony's USB speaker. The on-axis response due to woofer waveguide is not guite linear, but if you listen to these a little bit off-axis they work fine in nearfield.
If you want to use smaller woofer check the other design on the same web site, the HATT-III. It uses the same tweeter (also used by Totem Acoustic, though they have modded these a little bit and removed the acoustical lens and replaced the internal stuffing).
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/HATT-III.html
http://www.totemacoustic.com/english/products/bookShelf_model01.htm
http://www.amphion.fi/products/argon2/argon2frame5.htm
Al drivers produce nice and accurate bass and transients. Need steep xover. Argon2 crosses @1200Hz btw. That waveguide boosts the tweeter response a lot (at least 6 dB @ 1 kHz), reduces tweeter cone excursion and makes the off-axis response (directivity) more uniform. However, you can't use similar large wg for near-field listening. Coaxial driver would work fine though, see Tony's USB speaker. The on-axis response due to woofer waveguide is not guite linear, but if you listen to these a little bit off-axis they work fine in nearfield.
If you want to use smaller woofer check the other design on the same web site, the HATT-III. It uses the same tweeter (also used by Totem Acoustic, though they have modded these a little bit and removed the acoustical lens and replaced the internal stuffing).
http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/HATT-III.html
http://www.totemacoustic.com/english/products/bookShelf_model01.htm
radiance
Well-known member
[quote author="PatinaCreme"]What do you guys think of these plans?
http://www.audiocomponents.nl/speakers/scanspeak/reference/scanspeak-reference_eng.htm
Maybe a group build?
Anyone?
Patina[/quote]
I've heard very good things about the reference monitor. I have not heard the monitor itself though. They cost something like 1100 euro for a pair (a DIY kit that is). That's 50 euro for the wood and 500 euro for the speakers / crossover etc.
http://www.audiocomponents.nl/speakers/scanspeak/reference/scanspeak-reference_eng.htm
Maybe a group build?
Anyone?
Patina[/quote]
I've heard very good things about the reference monitor. I have not heard the monitor itself though. They cost something like 1100 euro for a pair (a DIY kit that is). That's 50 euro for the wood and 500 euro for the speakers / crossover etc.
chrissugar
Well-known member
Hey mhelin
I listened last year to those Amphion Argon2 speakers and was impressed by the sound. Very nice toys.
Two weeks ago i listened to a pair of small Italian made speakers, Opera Callas:
http://www.operaloudspeakers.com/listening/classica/callas.asp
It has an unbelivable sound for something small like that. Beautifull sound, large soundstage, very musical. Although when they told me that the cost for a pair is around 2000euros I was a bit disapointed.
chrissugar
I listened last year to those Amphion Argon2 speakers and was impressed by the sound. Very nice toys.
Two weeks ago i listened to a pair of small Italian made speakers, Opera Callas:
http://www.operaloudspeakers.com/listening/classica/callas.asp
It has an unbelivable sound for something small like that. Beautifull sound, large soundstage, very musical. Although when they told me that the cost for a pair is around 2000euros I was a bit disapointed.
chrissugar
I was going to do this one:
http://www.madisound.com/thor.html
But then I have decided to go for soffit mount nearfiled cos my room is very small.
Now I'm after a good MTM box that can go on the wall...
:roll:
This?
http://www.nutshellhifi.com/ME2txt.html#me2
or maybe this non-MTM one then:
http://www.audiocomponents.nl/speakers/scanspeak/reference/tekening/ref-mon_1.htm
http://www.madisound.com/thor.html
But then I have decided to go for soffit mount nearfiled cos my room is very small.
Now I'm after a good MTM box that can go on the wall...
:roll:
This?
http://www.nutshellhifi.com/ME2txt.html#me2
or maybe this non-MTM one then:
http://www.audiocomponents.nl/speakers/scanspeak/reference/tekening/ref-mon_1.htm
mhelin
Well-known member
Problem with ME2 or Scan Speak reference monitor maybe the unsymmetric tweeter placement. Main reasoning for it is that the diffactions will then occur at different frequenciens, but in practice it doesn't make good for the stereo image as diffractions from left and right sides are different. It shouldn't be a big problem though, and it's possible to move the tweeter in the middle if you prefer.
Actually I've built monitors using 8" Seas Excels and 1.1" Seas (alu) tweeters. The volume of box is about 50L and it's almost too big for my small room. I've used two old amps and cheap Behringer xover with passive baffle step compensation circuit. These need new amps and xover though (some class-D amps and DSP xover). I'm also building smaller boxes using Dynaudio drivers (found a pair of NOS Esotec's 15W75 woofers and D260 tweeters last year).
If I were designing new speakers now then besides the Seas aluminium stuff I would also consider Peerless HDS series woofers and some ribbon tweeters like Visaton MHT-12. I think HDS-164 and MHT-12 would make an excellent speaker too. I've tried HDS-164 with a cheap Audax tweeter (TM025F1 actually, excellent for the price) using series passive crossover, and they weren't a bad combination at all. Haven't measured the response yet, though. They weren't off-axis as good as argon2s but in nearfield and on-axis excellent, completely different to the hyper-accurate argons and much easier to listen to. Joe from JLMAudio has actually used those (same or different?) Peerless drivers in MTM configuration with Focal (looks like it) tweeter time aligned physically, see http://www.jlmaudio.com/Active Monitor.htm. I don't know about the HDX driver, it may be just a different name for the same stuff.
-Mikko
Actually I've built monitors using 8" Seas Excels and 1.1" Seas (alu) tweeters. The volume of box is about 50L and it's almost too big for my small room. I've used two old amps and cheap Behringer xover with passive baffle step compensation circuit. These need new amps and xover though (some class-D amps and DSP xover). I'm also building smaller boxes using Dynaudio drivers (found a pair of NOS Esotec's 15W75 woofers and D260 tweeters last year).
If I were designing new speakers now then besides the Seas aluminium stuff I would also consider Peerless HDS series woofers and some ribbon tweeters like Visaton MHT-12. I think HDS-164 and MHT-12 would make an excellent speaker too. I've tried HDS-164 with a cheap Audax tweeter (TM025F1 actually, excellent for the price) using series passive crossover, and they weren't a bad combination at all. Haven't measured the response yet, though. They weren't off-axis as good as argon2s but in nearfield and on-axis excellent, completely different to the hyper-accurate argons and much easier to listen to. Joe from JLMAudio has actually used those (same or different?) Peerless drivers in MTM configuration with Focal (looks like it) tweeter time aligned physically, see http://www.jlmaudio.com/Active Monitor.htm. I don't know about the HDX driver, it may be just a different name for the same stuff.
-Mikko
Eric Best
Well-known member
I built this one and I am very happy with it. http://www.madisound.com/solist.html
PatinaCreme
Well-known member
What would be a fair dollar amount for a group build?
everyone ok with 8" 2-way?
I guess I should have asked first-
anyone interested in a group build? :?:
Patina
everyone ok with 8" 2-way?
I guess I should have asked first-
anyone interested in a group build? :?:
Patina
Parts express has a kit with two 8" and tweeter MTM. For a first build OK speakers would be good to learn on. Don't get hung up on the high end as much as getting the bottom end right. The kit has a larger than 1" dia tweeter.
I tend to like well made sealed boxes. The hardest part of building your own speaker is getting the box right. The box is what messes up the sound alot of the time it stores energy and gets ride of it via the box sides often at bad time delays.
I don't like MDF I tend to like good plywood and carefull bracing.
I have build very dead small boxes for cheap 4 inch fullrange speakers for learning. wow the speakers are not good but in the dead small box they sound so much better.
OK speakers in a good box should be better than any great speakers in a not so good box.
Yes the drivers and crossover count but for DIY the box might be the hardest to get right.
I tend to like well made sealed boxes. The hardest part of building your own speaker is getting the box right. The box is what messes up the sound alot of the time it stores energy and gets ride of it via the box sides often at bad time delays.
I don't like MDF I tend to like good plywood and carefull bracing.
I have build very dead small boxes for cheap 4 inch fullrange speakers for learning. wow the speakers are not good but in the dead small box they sound so much better.
OK speakers in a good box should be better than any great speakers in a not so good box.
Yes the drivers and crossover count but for DIY the box might be the hardest to get right.
mhelin
Well-known member
What's so attractive in D'Appolito configuration? It's okey technically (you will get louder speakers) but in practise if you stand up or sit down or change position (vertically) the sound suddenly changes a lot. The sweet spot is a really small one. On the other hand you may also use the other woofer for baffle step compensation only (2 1/2 way). See the Proteus speaker design, it was done both ways: http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/Proteus.html
