Donald trump. what is your take on him?

[mattiasNYC]

More name calling .... evidence of lost arguments.

Again with putting words in my mouth that differ from what I actually wrote.

I refuse to waste my time, thus. Surely you can find someone else to take the bait.

JR

First of all, I didn't 'call you a name', so I'll just chalk that comment of yours up to you being influenced by your leaders' penchant for not caring about what's actually literally true.

Secondly, I understand you don't want to address the fact that your decisions led to getting a pray-away-the-gay supporter into government. I'd be embarrassed myself if I was in your shoes. But you claimed you were impressed by the leaders chosen, and your arguments are clear and nonsensical.



PS: I hope you don't have children, because they're going to have to grow up in what will be an even more ignorant US population.

 

[mattiasNYC]

People also fundamentally disagree about whether government CAN provide for a collective good. I've tried to make arguments (with facts) that government regulation has led to better outcomes than would have been possible otherwise (environmental regulation, technology innovation, etc). Unfortunately, it's almost become fundamental to the Republican mindset that this is not true.
The opposition was started with Reagan's famous proclamation "government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem."  If only he had known how the anti-government movement that would have latched onto this, I think he would turn over in his grave.

Yep.

 

[mattiasNYC]

Back to Trump:

He now criticized Nordstrom for dropping his daughter's brand, after which the company's stock dropped.

Is this the kind of separation between political power and personal finances we were told that we'd get?



I'm perpetually amazed by all American's that whine about the mingling of personal business and politics then go vote for more of the same, only far more clear problems and far more of it.

 

[DaveP]

Back to Trump:

He now criticized Nordstrom for dropping his daughter's brand, after which the company's stock dropped.

Is this the kind of separation between political power and personal finances we were told that we'd get?

I can't speak for the US media, but the UK media is reporting every detrimental thing that is said about Trump.

I guess her brand being dropped is the law of unintended consequences, she is suffering for her father's actions and he is being supportive.

Our royal family never replies to criticism, it is "above such things" ,  If you would like Queen Elizabeth to resume as your head of state,  then all the twittering will stop ;D

DaveP

 

[mattiasNYC]

I can't speak for the US media, but the UK media is reporting every detrimental thing that is said about Trump.

And at some point it is no longer individual "things", but actually a pattern that shows something fundamental.

I guess her brand being dropped is the law of unintended consequences, she is suffering for her father's actions and he is being supportive.

I'm all for fathers being supportive, but his words have consequences on the market. He's clearly not completely disconnected from his businesses and should keep his mouth shut OR divest. Again, some of us could see this coming a mile away whereas others just turned a blind eye towards it because this was "their guy".

 

[dmp]

So this is Trump's tweet:
"My daughter Ivanka has been treated so unfairly by @Nordstrom. She is a great person -- always pushing me to do the right thing! Terrible!"

Nordstrom stated it was a business decision based on the merits of the product line.  Curious how long the Trump supporters can keep the faith.  ;D
Anyway, let's keep watching events unfold with the "lost argument":

Latest breaking news, Trump's own SCOTUS nominee, Gorsuch, has criticized Trump's attacks on the Judicial system ("so called" judge).

 

[mattiasNYC]

The latest lie; Spicer starts referring to a terrorist attack in Atlanta perpetrated by foreigners.

They just can't help themselves.

 

[JohnRoberts]

So this is Trump's tweet:
"My daughter Ivanka has been treated so unfairly by @Nordstrom. She is a great person -- always pushing me to do the right thing! Terrible!"

Nordstrom stated it was a business decision based on the merits of the product line.  Curious how long the Trump supporters can keep the faith.  ;D
Anyway, let's keep watching events unfold with the "lost argument":

Latest breaking news, Trump's own SCOTUS nominee, Gorsuch, has criticized Trump's attacks on the Judicial system ("so called" judge).

That latest breaking news was leaked from a "closed door" meeting with Sen Blumenthal...(on front page of WSJ today).  :

  I actually like that Trump's cabinet can think for themselves and are not afraid to criticize the boss.

Since they will not win these on votes, this appears to be for political fund raising efforts and harvesting sound bites for 2018/2020. Some speculate that Warren is being set up to be the future face of the Democratic party, easier to beat than Booker or other up and coming Dems. 

Predicting the future is still too hard for me to do with any success.

JR

 

[mattiasNYC]

Conway just told people to go buy Ivanka's stuff, on FOX.

I'm sure that's just fine with the people who thought that this administration with all its great choices would move away from entangling personal business with politics, right?

http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/09/news/kellyanne-conway-ivanka-brand/index.html

 

[dmp]

leaked from a "closed door" meeting with Sen Blumenthal...(on front page of WSJ today).

So now transparency of gov is a "leak"?  Leaks generally refer to confidential government info, or info from a group in which all members would want to keep the info secret.
I would think we (the public) would want transparency...

 

[dmp]

Conway just told people to go buy Ivanka's stuff, on FOX.

It keeps getting more surreal... evidently the Trump administration doesn't like the free market much lately.
The irony is Trump's "America first" might conflict with people buying Ivanka's mostly 'made in China' clothing line.
How low can the ethics sink before the fortitude of his supports wavers?

 

[mattiasNYC]

'more than just a river in Egypt'.........

 

[JohnRoberts]

So now transparency of gov is a "leak"?  Leaks generally refer to confidential government info, or info from a group in which all members would want to keep the info secret.
I would think we (the public) would want transparency...

What do you think a "closed door" meeting means?

Blumenthal could be sure to get that same question asked in the judge's SCOTUS approval hearings in a few weeks that are sure to be contentious, but this is just another juicy "gotcha" moment that they couldn't pass up to impugn President Trump in the press. 

I would be apprehensive about saying anything in confidence to these guys during the closed door meetings (interviews) that I wouldn't want to be in tomorrow's headlines. If senators think they are ever going to get honest answers in the future this way, they are dreaming.

Even less dignity and civility for the senate today than yesterday.

It seems to me there is a lot of chum in the water distracting from real stuff that is going on...

Ignore the man behind the curtain, but enjoy the show.  : These headlines (this and Ivanka's clothing line) are far from important news.

JR

 

[DaveP]

You guys seem so surprised/horrified at this soap opera, what did you expect?

The whole point was that his voters did not want a cleaned up pro politician raised from the swamp.

They wanted a business man who thought like they did and that's what they got.

It's not going to be business as usual for the next four years and to be honest I'm getting sick of the media reporting every little hiccup on the way, none of it is really important or newsworthy.

Newspapers and the TV used to just report news, now there is endless speculation/interpretation/misinterpretation and downright hostility and various celebrity opinions to fill columns with endless dross.

The real meat is yet to come, maybe if he ever gets a cabinet in place. You have an 18th century system still grinding on in the 21st, it reminds me of the first motor cars that used to have a guy with a red flag walking in front.  And I thought the UK parliament was old fashioned, why by comparison it's positively streamlined.  Our parliamentary clerks voted to dispense with powdered wigs this week, we are obviously so much more advanced than you lot over there :

DaveP

 

[DaveP]

Maybe this is why Iraq is on Trumps list:-

"A 44-year-old man from Hertfordshire has been arrested at Gatwick Airport on suspicion of preparing terrorist acts.

Officers from the Metropolitan Police Counter Terrorism Command stopped the man after he disembarked from a flight from Iraq on Thursday."

ITV News.

DaveP

 

[dmp]

What do you think a "closed door" meeting means?

Scotus nominees make the rounds in Congress talking to people - this isn't atypical.
When previous nominees did this, they also made statements that got relayed to the media.
For instance, recall Sotomayer meeting with Leahy after she was nominated and his comments to the press.
Not sure where you got this "closed door" meeting narrative.  I do know what the term "closed door" means, thanks.

It sure seems like conservatives are falling into Trump's narrative of us vs them - where the media is the opponent now. Or the judiciary. Anything to pass the buck for his incompetence and amateurishness.
Trump's latest tweet on the ban, which is already in court:
"SEE YOU IN COURT"
Looks like he found the caps lock key.  ;D

 

[JohnRoberts]

Scotus nominees make the rounds in Congress talking to people - this isn't atypical.

yes part of the process to win support

When previous nominees did this, they also made statements that got relayed to the media.
For instance, recall Sotomayer meeting with Leahy after she was nominated and his comments to the press.

A meeting between Sotomayer and Leahy would be a group hug, involving mutual admiration, and press announcement was used to help her diffuse one of her offhanded comments expected to be used against her later in her hearings..

Not sure where you got this "closed door" meeting narrative.  I do know what the term "closed door" means, thanks.

From pretty much every news report about the meeting that called it "closed door". Democratic senators goaded Judge Goresuch to publicly criticize Trump's behavior, when he didn't they leaked his private comments.
---------
In hindsight I guess I am more angry about media being so active in playing along with the team politics. Blumenthal's characterization of Judge Gorsuch's comments were front page of WSJ news.  More positive interpretations of meetings with Judge Gorsuch are difficult to find (like republican ex-Sen Ayotte's).  The Democratic team politics is trying to use Judge Gorsuch to embarrass and discredit Trump. 

Of course any judge should be uncomfortable with Pres Trump's comments (who isn't), but Judge Goresuch is not looking to pick a fight with Pres Trump, that is pure democratic spin.

It sure seems like conservatives are falling into Trump's narrative of us vs them - where the media is the opponent now. Or the judiciary. Anything to pass the buck for his incompetence and amateurishness.

Seriously? The media has been solidly opposed to Pres Bush and in the bag for President Obama, now they are aggressively trying to discredit President Trump.  This is not some new invention of President Trump's but he has chosen to call a spade a spade and fight back aggressively against an unfriendly press.  Pres. Bush turned the other cheek ignoring media attacks and that just encouraged more abuse.  President Obama remarkably complains that he received bad press ( complaining about fox news on every bar's TV set?). Trump does not tolerate even the most minor slight, something he will eventually grow tired of, but in the meantime there will be lots of fireworks as he reacts to near continuous media attacks.

Trump's latest tweet on the ban, which is already in court:
"SEE YOU IN COURT"
Looks like he found the caps lock key.  ;D

And the answer from one of the parties to the lawsuit was funnier.. "we did see you in court and won".  ???

The election is over so IMO trump needs to spend more energy on the real work at hand, and less on superficial media attacks that are not significant.

JR

PS: Who here is paying attention to the new cabinet approvals, smoothing over of the 1-China kerfuffle with Beijing triggered by his earlier phone call with Taiwan, and strong meetings with Japanese leader today and this weekend? 

 

[tands]

Nobody. Cabinet approvals and court nominees should be voted against by all democratic politicians, if not, that is of note to their voters. The hell with his cabinet, the less of it there is the better, and McConnell did the same to Obama's court nominee, so we can wait 4 years for another                in a robe.

  When did it start that we had to soothe China's feathers? What exactly is going to change in our relationship with Japan, ever? You're just focused on it because it affects the value of your stocks. What you're asking about is no different than the first, second, and third 'closed door meeting' scandal to the rest of us.

Remember THAT whole fiasco? Me neither.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_5VbjvGTBo

 

[mattiasNYC]

What do you think a "closed door" meeting means?

The question was actually about the word "leak", but whatever...

If senators think they are ever going to get honest answers in the future this way, they are dreaming.

Dude, did you watch the hearing on Devos? How many straight answers did you hear? This new administration is the king of answering questions that weren't asked and diverting attention to other topics. I've never seen anything like it in my entire life. Well, except for the occasional troll on a forum.

Even less dignity and civility for the senate today than yesterday.

Well, again though, if "civility" is what you want, then "grab them by the pussy" and "go fuck yourself" doesn't really seem like indications of 'your crew' 'getting it'.

Ignore the man behind the curtain, but enjoy the show.  : These headlines (this and Ivanka's clothing line) are far from important news.

JR

You're so wrong. The issue on Ivanka's businesses is that you've elected either a bunch of people who are so incompetent they can't even figure out that making such statements are unethical - this despite having people specifically hired to deal with ethics - or you've elected people that knowingly say and do things to make themselves more money.

Now, seeing that people like you complained about Hillary supposedly making a bunch of money using her position in politics it IS important to see just what this is. If it's incompetence then you've elected incompetent leaders. If it's calculated then you've just elected more of the same + fomenting xenophobia.

The Democratic team politics is trying to use Judge Gorsuch to embarrass and discredit Trump. 

Of course any judge should be uncomfortable with Pres Trump's comments (who isn't), but Judge Goresuch is not looking to pick a fight with Pres Trump, that is pure democratic spin. Seriously?

Not seriously. I haven't seen a single proposition that the Gorsuch was trying to pick a fight. Who said that?

And again your line of reasoning is "confusing". "Any judge should be uncomfortable" with what Trump said, yet you somehow try to disqualify that valid criticism when either the media or the Democrats are issuing it. I mean, if that isn't the height of partisan thinking I don't know what is.

Either it's worthy of criticism or it isn't. Don't shoot the messenger just because your boy sucks at his job.

The media has been solidly opposed to Pres Bush and in the bag for President Obama, now they are aggressively trying to discredit President Trump.  This is not some new invention of President Trump's but he has chosen to call a spade a spade and fight back aggressively against an unfriendly press.  Pres. Bush turned the other cheek ignoring media attacks and that just encouraged more abuse.  President Obama remarkably complains that he received bad press ( complaining about fox news on every bar's TV set?).

Ok, but then take your pick: Either you judge the situation by viewing media as a whole, or you view just parts of the media as actually legitimate. I'm going to guess you'll do the former, because you're reasonable, in which case the last part of what I quoted above kind'a nullifies the first part. "The media" as a whole hasn't been solidly opposed to Trump just like it wasn't to Bush either, just part of the media, just as part of the media was solidly opposed to Obama.

But again though, you're just repeating exactly the narrative Trump wants you to regurgitate: The media is out to get him.

This way we get to talk about the media's bias rather than whether or not what it reports is actually true.

Trump does not tolerate even the most minor slight, something he will eventually grow tired of, but in the meantime there will be lots of fireworks as he reacts to near continuous media attacks.And the answer from one of the parties to the lawsuit was funnier.. "we did see you in court and won".  ???

The election is over so IMO trump needs to spend more energy on the real work at hand, and less on superficial media attacks that are not significant.

We already warned that he wasn't suitable for the job, exactly partly because a leader of the country with the most powerful military on earth must be able to tolerate "the most minor slight".

Apparently we have different standards when it comes to the requirements of mental faculties for a POTUS.

 

[mattiasNYC]

You guys seem so surprised/horrified at this soap opera, what did you expect?

We're not surprised. What gives you that idea?

The whole point was that his voters did not want a cleaned up pro politician raised from the swamp.

They wanted a business man who thought like they did and that's what they got.

So you mean an anti-muslim business guy with thin skin who hocks his own family's business while putting family members in top positions while other family members manages his business empire, hires an ex-banker to head up financial issues after which he tears up regulations leading to insane hikes in the value of said ex-banker's ex-bank.....

That's how the Trump-electorate thinks?

I'm getting sick of the media reporting every little hiccup on the way, none of it is really important or newsworthy.

It's not important that the president is trying to de-legitimize judges, that he's trying to get muslims banned from entry into the US while allowing christians? Those are extremely fundamental issues to this country. If you don't understand that then you don't get the US and its constitution.

Newspapers and the TV used to just report news, now there is endless speculation/interpretation/misinterpretation and downright hostility and various celebrity opinions to fill columns with endless dross.

Another one who shifts attention from issues to the media.

Maybe this is why Iraq is on Trumps list:-

"A 44-year-old man from Hertfordshire has been arrested at Gatwick Airport on suspicion of preparing terrorist acts.

Officers from the Metropolitan Police Counter Terrorism Command stopped the man after he disembarked from a flight from Iraq on Thursday."

ITV News.

DaveP

- Is this man a first generation immigrant to the UK?

- Is this man guilty of a crime or merely suspected of one?

- What do you know about the application process already in place for people from Iraq prior to Trump's "ban"?

(all rhetorical)