Electrolytic vs film caps for smaller values.

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In any case, how do we decide that one distortion-adding component gives “euphonic coloration” but another is bad and should be avoided?
It should be measurable. Then the decision regarding ""euphonicness" should be left to the "Chevaliers du Tasteson". This has been done and overdone, one's euphonicness is another's nastiness.
I'm taking no risks, I always aim to the less distortion possible.
 
I just built a fuzz tone pedal and compared a Panasonic FC electrolytic to a WIMA MKS and preferred the electrolytic. I didn't expect to. MKP wasn't going to fit. And the uF wasn't critical, just avoiding a low end rolloff. In some circuits you can hear a difference. Not better, it's a preference, the character of the sound is sometimes different (in my experience).
Electrolytics are limited vs film as they want a voltage difference on the sides. If the circuit doesn't have a voltage difference you need to order BP and then I would go for film unless the uF is really high
It's a different situation, because the intended distortion of the circuit masks the distortion of the linear path.
The difference you hear comes from the different intermodulation distortion. Basically, cutting LF results in less IMD.
So actually, I maintain that "uF" is critical.
 
I have a pair of Boss CE-5 pedals ,
both similar vintage ,
I kept one stock for comparison then swapped out lytics in the direct signal path for foils in the other ,
I definately prefered the foils ,
What Abbey says above about intermod distortion makes good sense explaining the difference my ears were hearing , even though its not a distortion box these units arent hifi by any measure .
 
I've used a lot of Panasonics back in the old days recapping MCI consoles.

Never bought United Chemi-Con.

Any experience with Visahy/BCC?
During the great capacitor shortage during Covid, Nichicon became very rare. And still is to some degree. In that time I bought all the above, including Vishay.

Vishay is a reputable component manufacturer, so I would have no issues using their parts.
 
It's a different situation, because the intended distortion of the circuit masks the distortion of the linear path.
The difference you hear comes from the different intermodulation distortion. Basically, cutting LF results in less IMD.
So actually, I maintain that "uF" is critical.
I was simply *trying* to say that I thought I was hearing a difference of the cap types, not the values. If I had matched the uF more precisely than 1uF+/-20% between the foil and electrolytic, there are some keyboard 'experts' who would start arguing there couldn't be an audible difference.

I wasn't trying to get anyone riled up about it. For the people here that actually build things and listen, follow your bliss (to quote the great Joseph Campbell)
 
As far as the sound is concerned, I don't want to step onto the audiophoolery territories but generally speaking does a MKS sound better than a lytic?
Depends on where it is and what it's doing. A signal coupling cap? Probably not. In some EQ topologies? Definitely yes.
 
Yes sorry I wasn't very clear. I meant a coupling cap indeed.
A coupling capacitor on its own has no sonic signature. It has only when coupled with a receiving load. The effect depends mainly on the voltage across the capacitor, so for minimizing the effects, the value of the capacitor should be high, which results in a lower pole.The non-linear effects in electrolytic caps are about 10 times those of film caps, so a 1uF film cap should be compared with a 10uF lytic. A consequence is that the VLF response with lytic caps is much lower than with films, which can be a problem. That's why the global response of a unit should be governed by one set of caps (one for the LF point the other for HF point) of unquestionable quality, never lytics nor high perm ceramics.
 
I was simply *trying* to say that I thought I was hearing a difference of the cap types, not the values. If I had matched the uF more precisely than 1uF+/-20% between the foil and electrolytic, there are some keyboard 'experts' who would start arguing there couldn't be an audible difference.
I have found that quite often, musical instruments designers are not afraid to use 'lytic caps for frequency shaping. I don't know if it comes from ignorance, casualness, stinginess or deliberate attempt at a sonic result.
 
I have found that quite often, musical instruments designers are not afraid to use 'lytic caps for frequency shaping. I don't know if it comes from ignorance, casualness, stinginess or deliberate attempt at a sonic result.
back last century when I was working at a company with real instrument designers on staff, I attempted to get technical information from them about the inner works... I generally got the tilted puppy dog head response. A guitar designer would likely try to copy an old design (inside an old company) and maybe ask one of the friendly guitar amp designers for advice. Probably more influenced by size and cost, than absolute component sonics.

JR
 
All the caps are fine. If anyone didn't buy a record because they used Vishay instead of United Chemical should be beaten. I remember Brent Averil getting all over everyone that used Panasonic caps because they sucked, and then when Roederstein became unavailable, he used Panasonics.
 
Sound any better? You can always scope it to see if it's picking up QRM. Not a fan of tantalums in the AP (audio path).
Tantalums may be unstable, may add distortion, and tastes are tastes, but... those 1073 from Neve, those u87 from Neumann, etc, have tantalum in the sound path. And leaving aside some controversies, for me (and most humans) they sound pretty decent, let's say it, they sound beautifull.

- I've used those dreaded little yellow droplets in a weird homemade preamp made with opamps and canhill trafos. And it can be psychological, you can call it placebo, call it homeopathy, but they seems to give it just the slight finishing touch to make it sound the way those old ¿deaf? men used to love. - In case you like that sound, just use some tantalums and andápayá. Greetings
 
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Different types of capacitors have different distortion and phase response variations. Using a capacitor as an AC coupling device is the cheapest method.
 
Different types of capacitors have different distortion and phase response variations.
I agree regarding distortion, not so much about phase response.
Using a capacitor as an AC coupling device is the cheapest method.
What do you mean? Do you have a better method for transmitting signals from one stage to another? Do you suggest using servos around all stages? Or transformers?
 
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..for low-value electrolytic capacitors you run into the problem with life expectancy correlating heavily with can diameter. meaning that physically narrow electrolytics are quite a lot more short-lived than their fatter cousins. For this reason, it's often advisable to use as high a working-voltage as there's physically room for in the circuit - and with recent miniaturization of PE-capacitors like the wima mks02 series it's simpler to go this route if you are designing for more-than-5years-service-life

/Jakob E.

example, e.g.:
https://www.chemi-con.co.jp/products/relatedfiles/capacitor/catalog/KZNLL-e.PDF
 

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