EQ'ing studio monitors

[Rochey]

Doesn't adding EQ change the phase response though?

 

[Matthew Jacobs]

Doesn't adding EQ change the phase response though?

Sorry Rochey, I don't really have the experience to identify / hear  any phasing artifacts.

My EQ'ed monitors have definitely made it easier to track, like finding the right position for a mic (well it's just 1 closed miced vocal mic) but it certainly wouldn't be ideal to mix, still doesn't sound 100%, I guess that could be the phasing...

All I know is that my monitoring still doesn't sound good and that is why I can't trust them and that is also why this thread caught my eye cause I wanna improve my monitoring.

I'm using NS-10 with a hi-fi amp and a Alesis graphic EQ. Not the best but it's just temporary until I find something better.

J

 

[JohnRoberts]

If the response error and eq are all minimum phase, the eq correction will often correct the phase response at the same time as correcting the response error. But not to get anyone's hopes up, room response errors are best correct with room treatment, not eq.

OTOH EQ is OK to get the speaker right in the first place, but most studio monitors are favored for their particular flavor of response. I don't think anybody ever accused a NS10 of being flat, or tried to make it so.


JR

 

[radiance]

may not be the best option but having parallel walls causes all kind of problems, This I am sure you know. but contractors and the rest of the world loves to look at parallel walls. Any chance you can angle a wall so it is parallel might have to build frame and dry wall it to an existing wall.

My new room in France has a shape like a trapezoid...not quite like one of those sterling mastering rooms but still...narrow in front, wide at the back...

I thought that this would be easy to set up but I still had to do a LOT of room treatment to get an exceptable sound.

 

[martthie_08]

As far as I am concerned the mastering rooms in Abbey Road are rectangular shaped, with lots of generic mineral fiber (fabric covered) walls. The mastering engineer said the speakers were "measured into the room", whatever that means (EQ?), maybe I can get him on the phone and ask.

 

[radiance]

Martthie, on the German tech talk forum there is some info to be found on VPR absorbers. Maybe you should have a look there.
These are espacially good for absorbing frequencies in the lower region and they don't occupy a lot of space.
Also, in Germany it's easier to get hold of the right materials to make these things such as Basotec...

 

[martthie_08]

yes, I have already built four VPR modules for a friends studio. I had hoped they would even things out a bit more, but we are still experimenting with placement, etc.

 

[jensenmann]

there´s nothing to experiment with, just put them in the corner (leave a little gap, though). The more it´s out of the corner the more the frequency where the absorption maximum is rises and efficiency lowers. VPR´s are most efficient in a corner.

 

[martthie_08]

Jens, you are right of course, but because the studio walls were already plastered with "Plattenabsorber" we tried putting two of the VPR up against the ceiling on one end of the control room. As the 1mm metal does tend to bend, there are spots where the Basotect does not have good contact to the ceiling. Either we will try adding more fixing points which is kind of against the concept of the inventors, or we will make space on the walls by removing two "Plattenabsorber" and put the VPR's there instead.

cheers from Stuttgart, Marten

 

[strangeandbouncy]

Hi,

  tube traps in the corner will help absorb what's slopping around in the corner for sure, but they tend to be rather narrow band absorbers. These will not deal with the fundamental standing troughs and peaks caused by primary reflections. They, like eq'ing, deal with the symptom and NOT the cause in my humble opinion.

  Always think about the physics. It's all there for the taking. Question everything. Is there a hard surface giving a primary reflection? 3 inches of rockwool is a hard surface to the bottom end! Can you bring your monitors closer to the listening position? Remember the "sputtergun" effect from physics at school. Double the distance, QUARTER the volume, and conversely, the defects in your room go up FOUR times as well. (or is it ? anyhow, whatever, nearer the speakers, less room effects what you hear.) Add to this, most people seriously don't have a clue how to place their speakers to form a decent stereo image. I refuse to be drawn into any arguements about this, I know what really works. Everytime. Many room problems can be helped by simply moving 'em around a bit. Try some different angles. - I'll give you a clue. They should NOT be focused on your nose!

  i wish there was a cheap, simple, foolproof way to instantly turn your spare room into a Mastering suite, but there isn't. Try moving your mixing position to another place in the room. "long and thin" may be better than "Short and Wide".


    Kindest regards,



      ANdyP

 

[sodderboy]

Usually EQ is only used on large monitors and never nearfields.  If you are looking to EQ NS-10's or Auratones, then it is all acoustic.  Some self-powered's have a little EQ, but you are using them because they are not perfect or flat.  You are using those small speakers because of how different they sound, anyway!
You can make larger adjustable Heimholz type traps if you need for the bass, and make them decorative.  They are normally built into a front wall with the BIG monitors.
If you just want to know brands, the old school EQ's are Meyer parametric, Urei or White graphics.  New school brings all sorts of digital boxes with time-alignment and EQ if you are into all that processing.
Mike

 

[drpat]

When Bob Hodas did our room, he used a Meyer parametric on my ATC SCM-300's. We ended up pulling it off. This EQ probably cost more than most people around here spend on their monitors though. I can't figure out why anybody would want to put a White EQ on anything. If you want something that does the least amount of damage to the phase, a GML would be the best answer.

 

[gar381]

The nicest old school EQs I've heard are inductor
based Klark DN27 or DN27A third oct. Graphics
I use a pair of these on my old JBL4333s
and they ALMOST sound like good modern monitors.
I know these are a favorite of SSL tech's as well.
They pop up on Ebay often. 


GARY

 

[jensenmann]

Jens, you are right of course, but because the studio walls were already plastered with "Plattenabsorber" we tried putting two of the VPR up against the ceiling on one end of the control room. As the 1mm metal does tend to bend, there are spots where the Basotect does not have good contact to the ceiling. Either we will try adding more fixing points which is kind of against the concept of the inventors, or we will make space on the walls by removing two "Plattenabsorber" and put the VPR's there instead.

cheers from Stuttgart, Marten

There´s nothing wrong with either placing them on the ceiling, nor with a few more fixing point. The commercially available VPRs have the steelplate lying in a frame surrounding the entire plate, not only four spots. So that´s not ideal either. Smaller points are still the better solution as long as the plate is lying on soft rubber and is not not screwed. I don´t remember exactly but I think that my buddy who worked with these mentioned that they are kind of directional. They adress the modes in the direction the plate shows. This would mean when you want to get rid of the 1st order modes you need three VPRs placed to adress the three room dimensions. That´s what I did successfully in my old room.

 

[andre tchmil]

Behringer DEQ2496 is by far THE cheapest option and is supposed to have a rather good digital section inside. Analog in/out section (opamps, caps) and PSU can be upgraded if you're not afraid of some SMD...

here more info...> http://www.awdiy.com/

And yes...room treatment first although there will always be some troublesome standing waves left if your room is not specially designed.

Any idea if the clock is any good, or if it can be fed with an external clock signal ?

 

[radiance]

Behringer DEQ2496 is by far THE cheapest option and is supposed to have a rather good digital section inside. Analog in/out section (opamps, caps) and PSU can be upgraded if you're not afraid of some SMD...

here more info...> http://www.awdiy.com/

And yes...room treatment first although there will always be some troublesome standing waves left if your room is not specially designed.

Any idea if the clock is any good, or if it can be fed with an external clock signal ?

Have you checked the link? I believe they have a clock upgrade mod as well...so the clock could be improved I guess.
Do a google picture search for deq2496 and check the backside for clock input...or download the manual...