Flying Fader vs VCA automation

[john12ax7]

VCA automation seems better to me for a modern workflow.  Could use HUI based faders that can also switch modes to control the DAW.  But some prefer the sonics of flying faders.

Is there a big sonic difference with a THAT 2180 / 81  vs a motorized fader? Distortion,  noise,  etc.

 

[JohnRoberts]

if you care about sound quality do it inside the digital domain... flying faders are good for impressing clients.

JR

PS;  FWIW when I designed my last "big" console I left enough room in the fader bay for motorized faders (because the customer is always right).

 

[john12ax7]

if you care about sound quality do it inside the digital domain

Not really a viable option for an analog console.

 

[Niketouille]

The ssl 4000 sounds way better with the motor on. Clearer and low frequency more extended. Never measured anything so it can be the calibration. Switching from motor on to off definitly change something.
On the other side flying fader are a pita to get working properly. There is always one that doesn't move the way it should, stop working,....
If I have to choose analog mixing, I would go for flying fader, no doubt. Otherwise summing in the box

 

[zamproject]

Hello

Modern VCA should be clean...
The theoretical advantage with fader automation is that attenuation is 100% passive, still some noise exist, like sliding noise depending of resistive element.

For the "user" side, having the fader moving is a big plus... compared to VCA automation.
You can also drive a VCA with a motor fader...

Best
Zam

 

[JohnRoberts]

Hello

Modern VCA should be clean...

Yes, very good, but not as clean as a good 10k fader.

The theoretical advantage with fader automation is that attenuation is 100% passive, still some noise exist, like sliding noise depending of resistive element.

and typical 10dB of post fader gain.

For the "user" side, having the fader moving is a big plus... compared to VCA automation.
You can also drive a VCA with a motor fader...

Best
Zam

Yes, I liked to make the moving faders dance at trade shows to impress everybody. 

That said I would never spend my own money for them.

JR

 

[Newmarket]

Just a pedantic note to mention that SSL moving faders used P&G motorised faders.
The "Flying Faders" system used on Neve used P&G faders but the motorised aspect was added by Martinsound.
Using past tense as I don't know what the status of these systems is now.
fwiw I recall having to look at the SSL system as they were experiencing what they considered to be excessive fader wear. Their servo system was noticeably 'harsher' than the P&G "in-house" servo.

 

[zamproject]

hello JR

I agree with the 10dB post fader buffer/boost, but you have it anyway in a console...fader with or without motor/automation

Yes, moving fader can impress client but at the end of the day they don't care about dancing fader...
At user side, I pretend you can't judge the utility of this tool before using it for real, since I have one, I will cry mixing without  :-\

Best
Zam

 

[JohnRoberts]

hello JR

I agree with the 10dB post fader buffer/boost, but you have it anyway in a console...fader with or without motor/automation

but the VCA can provide the +10dB on demand, not always in the path.  That said a good +10dB gain stage can be competitive with a unity gain VCA... (perhaps slightly better all things considered.)

Wrestling over absolute signal purity is kind of academic (other signal paths will dominate).

JR

Yes, moving fader can impress client but at the end of the day they don't care about dancing fader...
At user side, I pretend you can't judge the utility of this tool before using it for real, since I have one, I will cry mixing without  :-\

Best
Zam