Good budget ribbon mics

[brandonwong]

The bumblebees are darker for sure. In would say in order of “most condenser like presence” to darker toned of the ones i’ve had side by side:

AT4081
Royer 121
RCA BK5A/AEA R88
Bumblebee.

but i would say the AT is maybe +2 over the royer, the royer maybe +1 over the RCA and AEA, and then that group is +2 over the bumblebee- but these aren’t like, huge huge degrees of scale either.

in my highly subjective scaling system

Thanks for this.

 

[Tubetec]

http://douglas-self.com/ampins/wwarchive/Baxandall preamp Jan55 p1.jpg
HPF filtering may be desirable with certain sound sources depending on distance .

Id be interested to know if anyone can recommend a book specifcally dealing with ribbon mics ,
Microphone engineering handbook might discuss some of the finer points of modern ribbon designs,
cant find it to download although I have a copy somewhere , I best try and dig it out .

 

[Marik]

Id be interested to know if anyone can recommend a book specifcally dealing with ribbon mics ,
Microphone engineering handbook might discuss some of the finer points of modern ribbon designs,
cant find it to download although I have a copy somewhere , I best try and dig it out .

Tubetec,

I'd recommend following:

BBC Monograph
BBC Research Design
BBC Crosley Ribbon Microphone
BBC Ribbon Info
BBC PGD Ribbon Microphones
BBC Report on Beyer Ribbon Microphones

To those I could add "Microphones" published by BBC Engineering Training Manuals, and excellent chapter in "Microphone Engineering Handbook', by legendary M Gayford, which you've mentioned. Besides, this book has an awesome chapter on transformers by P. Baxandall, himself (this chapter alone is worth the high price tag of this book). Also, a good chapter on ribbons is in "Electroacoustics" (STC Monograph series) by the same M. Gayford.

H. Olson is one of the biggest authorities on the topic and has quite a few publications of different complexity--from very popular explanation of how mics (and acoustics) work to academic papers buried with heavy math. You could find those in any University library.

Best, M

 

[Tubetec]

Many thanks Marik ,
I knew lots of good info wasnt far off , I'll have another look at the 'BBC eng' post for the documents you listed .

 

[Marik]

Here is H. Olson Elements of Acoustics:

https://ia600209.us.archive.org/23/items/elementsofacoust00olso/elementsofacoust00olso.pdf

 

[Rybow]

Those bumblebee kits look very interesting. Seems like people really dig ‘em!
Ribbon mics seem to be one area where “budget” options are pretty thin on the ground. In Can-eh-da anyway
I haven’t used it, but the ART ar5 is an active ribbon that sells for $180 CAD. Very little about these online as far as reviews
https://artproaudio.com/product/ar5-active-ribbon-microphone/
Only video I could find on it

 

[dmp]

I really like uni-directional ribbon (i.e. BK5, etc...) and I don't think there are any budget options? Hardly any new options at all (AEA ku4 ku5a)
In my experience you wouldn't compare bi-directional to uni-directional ribbons as they are so different.

My experience with bi-directional is the 'budget' / DIY options are really decent but there is a gap to the great ones (i.e. coles) that I expect is... maybe due to the headbasket geometry?

I would really like to DIY a unidirectional ribbon... but building the labyrinth would be a lot of work

 

[Rybow]

I really like uni-directional ribbon (i.e. BK5, etc...) and I don't think there are any budget options? Hardly any new options at all (AEA ku4 ku5a)
In my experience you wouldn't compare bi-directional to uni-directional ribbons as they are so different.

My experience with bi-directional is the 'budget' / DIY options are really decent but there is a gap to the great ones (i.e. coles) that I expect is... maybe due to the headbasket geometry?

I would really like to DIY a unidirectional ribbon... but building the labyrinth would be a lot of work

The only unidirectional ribbon mic I can see that’s under $1000 is the Beyer M160.

Many years ago, during a heated discussion on that other forum, Michael Joly sent me his Oktava ML-219 to try out. Pretty cool considering I was a nobody (still am) with little experience. I remember it being a very cool sounding mic. I should see if I can dig up the recordings I made with it. Seems these are very rare now. One listing I saw had it priced just over $300 CAD

 

[fum]

For directional ribbons, a Beyer M500, M260, Oktava ML19 all come in at under $500, and are worth having. I would buy any of those mics far before I would go with the recent crops of "current production" mics.

The M160 is a great mic, and also worth it's price.

$.02

 

[dmp]

For directional ribbons, a Beyer M500, M260, Oktava ML19 all come in at under $500, and are worth having.

I have a M500 and M260 and they are really nice

 

[Tubetec]

M69 and M88 are probably worthy of a mention here although there dynamics with a sound more like
condensers , still two very desirable mics to have in the sonic armament cupboard.
I did see the TGV 90 which is a bit like like the M500 but it looks like thats no longer part of the product lineup , maybe the M160 is also on the way out as I saw a 'no longer available' sign on Thomann . Would be a shame if Beyer plan on phasing out ribbon mics from their catalogue .

Most of the modern budget Chinese mics are like relics from the 40 and 50's with big wide clunky ribbons , even in the new breed of ribbon mic companies theres very little that approaches the Beyers in terms of engineering . At around 450 euros apiece for an M160 , could be as good a time as any to snap up one of the originals .

My interest just now is X-Y stereo with figure 8 ribbons , Im very tempted to get a pair of M130's , they do appear to be still available, same price as an M160 more or less

Im also aware of a ribbon microphone element in common use in broadcast of very tiny proportions , maybe a more co-incident stereo image could be resolved due to the tiny proportions of the ribbons ,whats lost in terms of sensitivity could be recovered with a high step up (like Lundahls 1:110 ribbon mic tx ) and the right electronics .

 

[Whoops]

For directional ribbons, a Beyer M500, M260, Oktava ML19 all come in at under $500, and are worth having. I would buy any of those mics far before I would go with the recent crops of "current production" mics.

The M160 is a great mic, and also worth it's price.

$.02

The M160 and M260 are great microphones, but they are not budget ribbon mics

 

[dmp]

they are not budget ribbon mics

They are the cheapest directional ribbon mics. It is impressive that Beyer is still making them at that price point.

relics from the 40 and 50's with big wide clunky ribbons

I have heard some RCA ribbon mics from that era and they are amazing. I don't think there is anything bad about the size of the ribbons. Most of them need service, however. I had a 'working' ku2 but after a new ribbon from Enak it became incredible. Similarly, I've heard a 44 that was really unimpressive, but most likely needed service.

 

[Whoops]

They are the cheapest directional ribbon mics. It is impressive that Beyer is still making them at that price point.

Directional Ribbon mics are a rare thing anyway, I’m sure there’s more rare examples, but Beyer mics are the only directional ribbons that I know of so it’s not that it’s easy to compare if they are the “cheapest” as there is not much to compare against with.

I guess it depends on what someone considers “budget”, I personally consider budget the price range between 50 to 200 (dollar ou euro)

But I agree that Beyer M160 and M130 are great microphones, not the most expensive ribbon mics around and that are well worth the price

 

[Ricardus]

AEA makes a couple directional ribbons.

https://www.aearibbonmics.com/products/ku4/

 

[Tubetec]

I have a couple of the old Reslo sound ribbon mics, the kind the Beatles used , they do work but 30/50 ohm connection is suboptimal for todays mic inputs . I also have a nice Tannoy MR425 ,similar to what you see below .
I never really used them much for recording , once I did use the Tannoy to record the sound of a train pulling out of the station when I lived near a rail yard , the driver hooted the whistle as it vanished into the night . I ended up using the sound as an outro to a few music recordings I had done with a friend who passed away long before his time .

Some extra info on the Tannoy ribbon mics here :
http://xaudiaelektrik.blogspot.com/2015/02/tannoy-ribbons-microphones-part-1.html

 

[fum]

The Reslo's, if the ribbons are in good shape, can benefit from either a matching transformer, or a different output transformer. I think Stewart makes matching transformers or appropriate replacement transformers.

ju

 

[TromNek]

uni-directional ribbons
I've had my m160 and m260 since 1980. I like them as vocal mics, but the polar pattern deteriorates frequency wise a lot as you move off axis.
I haven't used other unidirectional ribbons, but I'm guessing that the physics of making it unidirectional is always going to mess up the polar pattern in relation to frequency.

budget ribbons
I picked up some sE VR1s when they were on sale for $250 each about 7 years ago.
I like them a lot. They have extended frequency response. And work real well on strings and brass.
The polar pattern is very nice across the frequency range (for a budget ribbon). It works out well for recording stereo in Blumlein or M-S.

I typically record my guitar with one or two VR1s (nulls pointed to my voice, to isolate guitar)
and my voice with an R84 (nulls pointed to my guitar, to isolate voice).

 

[wjohn]

I had an M160 in my Thomann cart and it vanished this week. They were a lot cheaper than buying in the US, so hopefully just out of stock.

Budget ribbons I've been impressed with:
Monoprice LR100 (active) - seems based on the Proel/Eikon RM8
Samar AL-95 - fantastic
Nohype LRM-V
Apex 210B - decent, but J-P's LRM-V sounds better and has a removable cable (ShuaiYin SYR14 body instead of SYR10)
MXL R40 - I re-ribboned one from ebay with 1.8u foil and it sounds great

Less impressed with:
Cascade Vin-Jet
Avantone CR-14

Upper range of budget price:
Royer R-10 - great on guitar cabs (my main use case)
Beyer M160 - flat response

Saving up my $ for a Melodium reissue . . .

 

[Austral]

For uni-directional ribbon mics, the Okatava ML-19 is also worth considering. They are physically much bigger than the diminutive and convenient Beyers, and their pickup pattern is wider, but they bring their own charms. Long out of production, they are still widely available on the usual sites.

I had my two re-ribboned last year (Stewart at Xaudia) and couldn't believe the improvement! I have also physically modded mine. As a first step, removing the blast barrier / resonator produces smoother upper mids. I put a simple screen in its place (see photo).

(I also physically mod my Beyers, so don't hold it against the Oktava!)