A scratchy violin or fidil might well use some tamping down in the high end that a ribbon mic imparts , the 'penny' or tin whistle is the same ,with a wide bandwidth mic you'll only end up with shedloads of intermod dist. , theres no such thing as one mic that fits all scenarios .
Good budget ribbon mics
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TromNek
Well-known member
For close mic'ing guitar cabs, I find dynamic mics more consistent, reliable and pleasing.
Often I put a condenser on the cab too, but I found that I rarely would include it in the final mix.
Often I put a condenser on the cab too, but I found that I rarely would include it in the final mix.
Rybow
Well-known member
I should ask him if he eats the same food. I wouldn’t doubt it. I use the term mentor loosely. He gave me a couple of weeks of tutelage. He has a great rep, and has run a studio here for a long time. I’m more guerilla style.
I was talking about the ART ar5 and SE VR1. He got an audio boner for the Coles 4050. We live in different price brackets.
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Personally I like Ribbon mics on Horns section a lot, I find condenser mics makes them too harsh, of course this is a matter of taste.
Sometimes I use condenser mics for instruments with less high end and darker mics for bright instruments.
For example a Flute with a condenser will have a lot of whistle sound, air and not a lot of body, so I might use a Ribbon to make it less pointy/needle sound and give it extra body.
of course if I know the client likes a different and more agressive sound I might do a completely different thing, so it depends on the client, the music and that job aesthetics, I adapt to the needs and make it work
Sometimes I use condenser mics for instruments with less high end and darker mics for bright instruments.
For example a Flute with a condenser will have a lot of whistle sound, air and not a lot of body, so I might use a Ribbon to make it less pointy/needle sound and give it extra body.
of course if I know the client likes a different and more agressive sound I might do a completely different thing, so it depends on the client, the music and that job aesthetics, I adapt to the needs and make it work
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Rybow
Well-known member
Ribbons have always been described as “smooth and natural” sounding. This is probably why you can EQ them more easily than LDC recordings.
It seems to me from reading this thread plus some googling that there are more budget options from small independent manufacturers than commercial ones. I think that’s pretty cool.
@TromNek I hear you on guitar cabs. Unless you go off axis the proximity effect of a ribbon up close is going to be pretty overbearing. I have been liking a ribbon in support of a dynamic on a raging guitar amp either off axis near the edge or on axis 6-8” back.
It seems to me from reading this thread plus some googling that there are more budget options from small independent manufacturers than commercial ones. I think that’s pretty cool.
@TromNek I hear you on guitar cabs. Unless you go off axis the proximity effect of a ribbon up close is going to be pretty overbearing. I have been liking a ribbon in support of a dynamic on a raging guitar amp either off axis near the edge or on axis 6-8” back.
I understand "smooth" because they have less high end. "Natural" I wouldnt say, as the lack of high end is not that natural neither the exaggerated Lows and low mids that they can have sometimes, so I don't that's "natural" I consider it more like something "useful" in certain situations.
I also don't think they're easier to EQ than any other microphone, neither I see any reason for that, all microphones seem easy to EQ, well EQ is pretty easy to use.
Most budget Ribbons being sold and that I see the most are the Chinese models similar to the TBone Ribbon mics, there's different brands doing the same products, these 2 models are really good:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_rb500.htm
https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_rm700.htm
Rybow
Well-known member
Those Tbone mics would be the Apex brand here in Canada, and only the RB500 equivalent is readily available. Even getting stuff from the States is a PITA.
Aside from the Apex, Art and be sE the only other “budget” ribbon here is the CAD d82. I wanted to grab an sE VR1, but there still seem to be supply issues.
I’m quite interested in the Samar AL95. Reasonable price and made in the US.
EQ is easy to use and overuse. I was alluding to ribbon mics being able to take fairly drastic EQ boosts without sounding as crappy as LDC’s can. However, conventional wisdom says that if drastic corrective EQ is needed then the issue is with mic choice, position, source and/or environment.
Aside from the Apex, Art and be sE the only other “budget” ribbon here is the CAD d82. I wanted to grab an sE VR1, but there still seem to be supply issues.
I’m quite interested in the Samar AL95. Reasonable price and made in the US.
EQ is easy to use and overuse. I was alluding to ribbon mics being able to take fairly drastic EQ boosts without sounding as crappy as LDC’s can. However, conventional wisdom says that if drastic corrective EQ is needed then the issue is with mic choice, position, source and/or environment.
TromNek
Well-known member
Just a heads up to all of you.
A little higher than 'budget ribbon' price, but on sale (stupid deal of the day) today at musicians friend.
Is the Stager Stereo SR-2N for $900
I don't know much about this mic, but figured I'd post today's sale price.
A little higher than 'budget ribbon' price, but on sale (stupid deal of the day) today at musicians friend.
Is the Stager Stereo SR-2N for $900
I don't know much about this mic, but figured I'd post today's sale price.
Austral
Member
I own and have modded most of the mics mentioned in this discussion. The Chinese medium- and long-ribbon models are fine with an upgraded transformer, but do have a noticeable high roll-off and relatively slow transient response. (Sometimes that is just what is needed --e.g. jazz guitar!) The Bumblebee is nice, but the tight fit in the tube (as someone noted) combined with the wires down the side of the motor, interferes with the sound cancellation. After a lot of experimentation, I figured out that running a single wire down the middle, rather than along the sides, improved the sound. The toroidal Bumblebee trafos are nice indeed. The Samar AL95 is good value too, with nice higher end response, but very light construction. I don't use it much, but that could just be me. (I use the more expensive Samar VL37 much more often.) I own an older No-Hype, so can't comment on the latest models, mine is a good mic, and JP (the owner) is very accessible and friendly.
Rybow
Well-known member
Thanks for posting all that this info about these lesser known ribbons. Much appreciated! You seem to be a ribbon mic aficionado.
That's a characteristic I find in all Ribbon mics, it's actually what differentiates Ribbon mics from Condenser mics or Moving Coil Dynamics.
There's exceptions for sure, but the Chinese ribbon mics exhibit the similar level of high end roll off of other Ribbons that I used like the Coles 4038, Melodium 42B, Royer R-121, Beyer M160, and RCA 44 and 77. Same for the Slow transient response.
Maybe they could be a improved a bit by fitting a thinner ribbon than stock but the sound is in the ballpark of what it's expected of a Ribbon mic
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Austral
Member
I agree completely that the classic ribbon sound is as described, and that the Chinese mics with a trafo upgrade, do a decent job. The recent Chinese ribbons seem to all have thinner ribbon material too than previously, and most of them seem to be properly tensioned --unlike, say 7 or 8 years ago-- and some of them are now active. What with their prices remaining about the same, they are now even better value when looking for that classic sound. On the other hand, there are notable mid-priced ribbon mics, several of which are discussed in this thread, that claim to go up to 15k or more: Samar Al 95, sE's Voodoo, and Bumble Bee (well, more like 14k). The Rode NTR, which I don't think has come up yet on this thread, is active and also has extended frequency response. So, I'd say that the ribbon renaissance has left us spoiled for choices! (And, I haven't even listed some of the excellent but pricier options...)
I don’t know how the sound is improved or not with a transformer upgrade on these mics.
My experience in using those mics in commercial projects has been that they do a decent job and achieve a sound similar to other classic ribbon mics in Stock form, without any “upgrades”.
Im not ditching that a transformer might not be an upgrade, I’m just saying is that I never modified my mics and my experience is that they are pretty good in stock form, and for the moment I’m so happy with them that I’m not looking for any modification
Austral
Member
As this is a DIY forum, my reply is: 'try it, you'll like it!'
Any decent trafo will do... I have tried many... A personal favourite is the FAB 4196, wound here in the UK. (FAB TRANSFORMERS) But, to fit in the tight 'lollipop' bodies, the trafo bobbins have to be carefully trimmed... otherwise a winding will be severed... If you ask nicely, the proprietor will trim them in advance (at least, he did for me!).
The well-known Swedish and US makers are also very good.
Honestly, I got a bit addicted to trying out different sounds, and bought something like 7 or 8 of the cheap lollipops just to give them all a go! I also played around with body mods as well. In the end, it became a matter of taste. But, the FAB trafo is a great, affordable, place to begin.
Rob Flinn
Well-known member
Anyone tried this newer offering from Thomann ?
https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_t.bone_rb_770.htm#bewertung
https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_t.bone_rb_770.htm#bewertung
Never tried that one, although it looks very nice, I would like to try it out.
Following my good experience with the RB500 and RM700 I'm pretty sure it's a great microphone.
As this is a DIY forum, my reply is: 'try it, you'll like it!'
I have no intentions of trying it because I'm really happy with the RB500 sound as is, in stock form.
I will "not fix something that is not broken"
I was just explaining that the Tbone RB500 and RM700 microphones in stock form don't have less high end than any other Classic Ribbon microphone, actually the RB500 has a little bit more extended high end than a Coles 4038, that is easy to listen here:
brienalkire
New member
I built a pair of Bumblebee Pro RM-7's. I took the boosters out and mounted them in an external box so that I'd have the option to use them passive, which I believe makes them RM-6. Anyways, I love the tone and use them as a Blumlein pair for classical guitar. However, I noticed that they pick-up noise from LED lights so I have to be careful where I use them. Also, I bought a Cloudlifter booster which is quieter than the booster that came with the RM-7s. Still, they are a nice addition to my mic collection and easy to build.
mrgrooves666
Well-known member
Is it me or most ribbons are more suceptible to this than say condensers. All my ribbons, including my pair of Samar's AL95, get a little noisy near led lights. Not a problem but just get some distance from my desk/rig and that's all.
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