Good first studio preamps on a (tight) budget

[sahib]

I hate everything on the market right now except the ART transX preamps. never heard them . I'm just saying. if I was going to buy preamps, this would be it. if you buy preamps without input transformers, youre throwing money away

What a load of tosh.

Have you tried all the preamps in the market that you hate them?

And the one you'd get is the one that you've never tried?

Finally, our micpres are transformerless (with so many others) and so many serious engineers are using them.

 

[Newmarket]

What a load of tosh.

Have you tried all the preamps in the market that you hate them?

And the one you'd get is the one that you've never tried?

Finally, our micpres are transformerless (with so many others) and so many serious engineers are using them.

"Leave it Terry Not worth your time "

 

[mhelin]

Behringer 1273 DUAL MIC PREAMP / EQ looks good to me and isn't that expensive (haven't seen one yet).
https://www.audiofader.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Behringer-1273-interno.png
Might not be accurate replica though:
https://www.audiofader.com/behringer-1273-il-pre-eq-in-stile-neve-1073-recensione/

 

[Seeker]

Hi Soundsofjill, I’m not sure if any of these would fit in your budget, and of course I don’t know your building experience, however I would recommend looking at JLM audio offerings esp if you are looking for a kit…. I recently built a dual 99v and I find it excellent on most everything, but especially nice with dynamics with the massive amount of gain and variable impedance.

We did have a small problem with the supplied psu needing a soft start mod, but Joe was extremely responsive and we got it worked out in a cpl days.

 

[rmburrow]

"Leave it Terry Not worth your time "

Transformerless doesn't help if preamp is used in strong RF environment (i.e. nearby AM/FM/TV transmitter/antenna)...

 

[StarTrucker]

I think the general consensus is :

Gordons are great
500 series rack is the way to go and add your preamps to it over time (CAPI, Gordon, AML [audio maintenance] etc.

Midas 10 slot 500 rack is like 250 bucks or less.

From what I've heard, CAPI products will get you API sound quality for about 250 bucks a piece.

I've been impressed with Klark Teknik and I think most people are too, especially when money is tight. It's not very popular around here because they copy other peoples' circuits.

 

[SubSpec]

I love that one of the main takeaways of the "first studio preamps on a (tight) budget" thread is that Gordon preamps are awesome! I imagine that is true, but maybe not the best fit for the cause.

Alas, it's been a wild ride...

 

[tk@halmi]

When I listen to music, and I listen to a lot of amateur performers, it is very rare that I wish they recorded a piece on better equipment.

The first impressions always have to do with the presentation of melody, rhythm and lyrics.

Next up listening to how they recorded, mixed and mastered the song. You just can’t tell what preamp an instrument was recorded in a mix.

Also, if you enjoy tinkering with studio electronics (like most of us here on GroupDIY who love reinventing the mouse trap) that is a very different thing.

 

[k brown]

I occasionally, just for grins and a bit of a reality check, I'll listen again to some of the lowest-end gear I still have knocking around, and am usually pleasantly surprised at how good much of it sounds.

For example, the M-Audio MobilePre MkII; I don't know about the A/D part of it because it's never worked right, but I added a direct-out from the mic preamps, and it actually sounds pretty decent; the HP amp, too. It's extremely lightweight and will run off a 5v USB batt.

Also, the preamps (four of them!) in the little, plastic Spirit Folio Notepad sound much better than most people would expect from such a 'value' product; good design doesn't necessarily have to be expensive.

 

[Newmarket]

Transformerless doesn't help if preamp is used in strong RF environment (i.e. nearby AM/FM/TV transmitter/antenna)...

Well that depends on degree and detail of rfi interference and the amplification details. Nothing is perfect- not even transformers. Starquard cable may give some advantage. Transformers are a "Bulletproof" option but increase THD (not withstanding Low Field or Mixed Feedback etc implementations)

 

[k brown]

Transformerless doesn't help if preamp is used in strong RF environment (i.e. nearby AM/FM/TV transmitter/antenna)...

I've yet to hear a single report of interference issues in strong RF environments (isn't that almost everywhere these days?) with these xformerless pres which are very highly regarded by some of the top Classical engineers:
https://www.davelectronics.com/bg1.htm
https://audient.com/products/mic-pres/asp880/overview/

 

[Newmarket]

I've yet to hear a single report of interference issues in strong RF environments (isn't that almost everywhere these days?) with these xformerless pres which are very highly regarded by some of the top Classical engineers:
https://www.davelectronics.com/bg1.htm
https://audient.com/products/mic-pres/asp880/overview/

Yes we have more rfi in general now with increased wireless comms etc. But there are still instances where it is significantly greater than average eg around transmitters / communication hubs etc. You would generally want to avoid such locations for recording but sometimes unavoidable eg typically OB situations.

 

[sahib]

Transformerless doesn't help if preamp is used in strong RF environment (i.e. nearby AM/FM/TV transmitter/antenna)...

Wrong.

Have you heard of RF/EMI protection in an input stage design?

 

[JohnRoberts]

When I was designing mixers/consoles it always irritated me how customers discount preamps because there happens to be 8,16, 24, or more inside a single chassis. Putting multiple preamps side by side does not degrade performance. The common ASSumption is that multiple preamp designers cut corners that affect performance. In fact there are significant cost savings from using a common chassis, common power supply, and buying components by the truckload.

For decades now mic preamps have been approaching theoretical low noise and high linearity limits. People have been trying to reinvent these already round wheels for years.

JR

 

[rmburrow]

I work

Wrong.

Have you heard of RF/EMI protection in an input stage design?

I work with RF/EMI. The "box" (preamp, etc.) can be designed almost to theoretical limits and function in a "quiet" RF/EMI environment to spec. Introduce a "source" to the box, and the integrity of the box depends on CMRR rejection, input filtering, etc. Audio rectification may be the most common problem if a "dirty" input is introduced to a "clean" box in a high RF field (radio or TV station, etc.) The "dirty" input can be an unbalanced input, low CMRR on balanced input, induced pulsing from nearby devices or power equipment (SCR, triac, etc.) The Don White EMI manuals cover a lot of this.

 

[rmburrow]

Yes we have more rfi in general now with increased wireless comms etc. But there are still instances where it is significantly greater than average eg around transmitters / communication hubs etc. You would generally want to avoid such locations for recording but sometimes unavoidable eg typically OB situations.

RFI has been increasing steadily over the past 40 years. The FCC put emission standards on transmitting equipment a long time ago and hasn't increased the conducted or radiated limits since that would increase manufacturers' production costs. The same goes for computers and other equipment using a "clocked" time base > 10 kHz. HP (now Agilent) suggested a while back that their equipment would operate normally in a RF field of 500 mV/m (0.5 V/m). This implies being close to a strong RF source such as a radio or TV station, etc. High RF fields may affect sensitive equipment (audio consoles, etc. at co-located studio/transmitter sites etc.) due to blanket interference. (The FCC defines this as 1 V/m for AM, 115 dBuV for FM, TV). This implies that audio rectification in a device may occur in a limited contour surrounding the transmit antenna and not a general problem otherwise.

 

[sahib]

I work

I work with RF/EMI. The "box" (preamp, etc.) can be designed almost to theoretical limits and function in a "quiet" RF/EMI environment to spec. Introduce a "source" to the box, and the integrity of the box depends on CMRR rejection, input filtering, etc. Audio rectification may be the most common problem if a "dirty" input is introduced to a "clean" box in a high RF field (radio or TV station, etc.) The "dirty" input can be an unbalanced input, low CMRR on balanced input, induced pulsing from nearby devices or power equipment (SCR, triac, etc.) The Don White EMI manuals cover a lot of this.

You may well do but your blanket statement does not give me the impression that you know pro-audio design all that much.

 

[Newmarket]

I work

I work with RF/EMI. The "box" (preamp, etc.) can be designed almost to theoretical limits and function in a "quiet" RF/EMI environment to spec. Introduce a "source" to the box, and the integrity of the box depends on CMRR rejection, input filtering, etc. Audio rectification may be the most common problem if a "dirty" input is introduced to a "clean" box in a high RF field (radio or TV station, etc.) The "dirty" input can be an unbalanced input, low CMRR on balanced input, induced pulsing from nearby devices or power equipment (SCR, triac, etc.) The Don White EMI manuals cover a lot of this.

Yes. Hence - I assume - sahib's reference to appropriate countermeasures.

 

[snakecained2]

I've yet to hear a single report of interference issues in strong RF environments (isn't that almost everywhere these days?) with these xformerless pres which are very highly regarded by some of the top Classical engineers:
https://www.davelectronics.com/bg1.htm
https://audient.com/products/mic-pres/asp880/overview/

I use the Audient and Davs regularly in some odd locations. Not picking up anything untoward, but fairly careful about cables and screening etc.
I used to work next to an Airport and we used to negotiate when the ILS runway system was on when we needed to measure something.

 

[k brown]

I use the Audient and Davs regularly in some odd locations. Not picking up anything untoward, but fairly careful about cables and screening etc.
I used to work next to an Airport and we used to negotiate when the ILS runway system was on when we needed to measure something.

By "Davs" you mean D. A. V. Electronics.; as in Broadhurst Gardens?