Gun Stats

[Kingston]

Well this is odd, living in times of actual Wild West as depicted in the movies, with cowboys and indians and all. I remember as a kid I used to think it must have been incredibly dangerous with all those people with their guns out in the open. I find this concept of "open carry" simply f**ked up.

 

[dmp]

The white cop who shot the black guy in his car with his girlfriend, seemed far too frightened and nervous to be doing that kind of work, it needs a cool calm head IMHO.
It seems the most dangerous thing you can do in the US is to have a busted tail light.

I grew up a few miles from where that happened. When I was driving around there (16 to 20 yrs old), I got pulled over only once and was let go with a warning (going too fast in a 25mph zone)
I read the guy who was shot was pulled over more than three times a year.  I don't think I would like to be treated differently and unfairly either. It's hard to comprehend a systematic and persistent harassment like that.

I do not dismiss that young black people get treated differently than I do during a traffic stop, which is even more reason for them to be polite and respect authority.

Wow.  I'm stunned to read that.

I perceive a problem with public rhetoric and finally President Obama made a speech today without calling for gun control, or including other divisive comments.  I wish he took this approach a lot sooner. 

The President is for everybody, not just the powerful and privileged. I think he should speak to everybody that has been harmed over this long series of tragic events.

 

[mattiasNYC]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/us/wisconsin-sheriff-david-clarke-i-predicted-this/index.html

That Sheriff is one big idiot.

 

[mattiasNYC]

You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts (Moynihan).  I am talking about an alarming recent trend. This is no doubt made worse by all the media attention. These killings were not always national (or international) news stories. This increased media spotlight can also energize copycats.

And what that sounds like to those who are being discriminated against, and those who are treated illegally or just recklessly, is that you want to wipe that dirt under the rug. So when yet another person gets shot by a trigger-happy cop that should go under the rug. Hear nothing. See nothing. Say nothing.

But rather than the problem going away, some people actually live this reality. So I would argue that regardless of what the media is reporting - that you don't want to see - these people already know it and live it.

Now, let's compare and contrast:

" I am talking about an alarming recent trend. "
""26 police killed so far in 2016, up 44% from 2015" [/size]and that headline doesn't count the three officers killed in baton Rouge."

That's today. But just a couple of days ago:

"The trends involve inertia or momentum. Cause and effect will not reveal instantly,"

In just a few days you've managed to both say that the timeline we're looking at is too short to reveal anything of value because of "inertia", yet also saying that we should worry about recent trends apparently making "inertia" somehow irrelevant all of a sudden.

Obama gets the blame when there's a short term change negatively in killed police officers.
Obama gets no credit when there's a long term positive change in killed police officers.

 

[DaveP]

We all need to lighten up.

Some English Irony is called for:-

I just love this pic of an everyday guy in Cleveland Ohio,

hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst.



What could you do with a gun like that?  Take out your neighbourhood drug cartel?

It takes me back to good ol' Alfred E. Neuman and Mad magazine.

"What me worry"

DaveP

 

[JohnRoberts]

I read the guy who was shot was pulled over more than three times a year.  I don't think I would like to be treated differently and unfairly either. It's hard to comprehend a systematic and persistent harassment like that.

If he was stopped 3x a year just for DWB (driving while black) that sounds discriminatory.  Every time I've been stopped I did something to precipitate the stop (typically speeding) and the officer did not know my race until after I was stopped.

Back in the 60's I drove a ratty looking car with loud exhaust and police would stop me on general principles. At one point my windshield and side glass was broken by some drunk outside a bar with a tire iron ( because he was kicked out of that bar). I replaced the windshield right away but it took a few weeks to replace the side glass that I taped up. One small town Barney Fife told me to not drive through his town or he would impound my car. He probably couldn't do that but I was a kid, so just drove around that town for a while.

Back on topic, do police have so much time on their hands that they randomly stop drivers for being black?  Sen Tim Scott of SC reports being stopped 7 times in one year. He even reports getting attitude from the capitol police (probably not a good career move to hassle a senator on his way to work in the senate suggestive of low IQ as well.) Some of this is old fashioned racial prejudice and stereotyping as humans are prone to do.

A black man driving a nice car in a wealthy white neighborhood looks suspicious to many. Just like I probably looked suspicious as a white man driving in the wealthy black suburb I lived in briefly.  I didn't live there long enough or draw undue attention to myself, so no juicy anecdotes. 

I do not dismiss that young black people get treated differently than I do during a traffic stop, which is even more reason for them to be polite and respect authority.

Wow.  I'm stunned to read that.

Sorry if I was unclear.  IF there is a racist bias in law enforcement and evidence suggests there is, it seems unwise to poke the bear. I already treat police with respect but if i was going into the situation with two strikes against me I'd be careful about bringing any extra attitude, no matter who is right or wrong.  (I learned in the army not to argue with drill sergeants. They always win the argument.)

"I perceive a problem with public rhetoric and finally President Obama made a speech today without calling for gun control, or including other divisive comments.  I wish he took this approach a lot sooner. "
The President is for everybody, not just the powerful and privileged. I think he should speak to everybody that has been harmed over this long series of tragic events.

You got the quotes a little messed up, I wrote that quoted part. I do believe that words have consequences and public utterings made in the context of certain events can sound like tacit approval or justification for violent behavior, no matter how much you walk it back in qualifying comments.  I appreciate that he softened his tone.

I consider the police to be "us" not "them". We need a lot of healing to happen to get all communities to feel like that. This can't start until these senseless killings stop. People should not be killed during minor traffic stops and police officers should not be assassinated. There is no justification for either.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

We all need to lighten up.

Some English Irony is called for:-

I just love this pic of an everyday guy in Cleveland Ohio,

hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst.



What could you do with a gun like that?  Take out your neighbourhood drug cartel?

It takes me back to good ol' Alfred E. Neuman and Mad magazine.

"What me worry"

DaveP

Yup, I am almost afraid to watch (I won't actually watch) but worry about what the agitators could stir up,  with that many armed for bear in the area.

JR
[edit] I might watch out for the 100 naked women (my kind of protest). , better than 72 virgins.  [/edit]

 

[kambo]

What could you do with a gun like that?  Take out your neighbourhood drug cartel?


DaveP

he is covered by law since 1815  ???

2016-1815 = 201 years ago 

edit: added picture to attachment,  incase ur picture link dies...

 

[lukas]

DaveP You are komunist propagandist...by people like you France loose so fast in SWW in 1940y.

 

[kambo]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/us/wisconsin-sheriff-david-clarke-i-predicted-this/index.html

That Sheriff is one big idiot.

i didnt know what to call him  ;D
i FWed same link to my local friends as interesting dialog 

 

[DaveP]

DaveP You are komunist propagandist...by people like you France loose so fast in SWW in 1940y.

Please note all those members who think I am a right wing propagandist!

Actually France lost in WW2 because Germany did not invade across their common border, but through Belgium instead, not really a political issue.  As far as I know, the communists were the major part of the resistance.

For the record, I am English but I live in France.  I am anti doctrine, so that rules out Communism and Capitalism.

I'm not sure who or what you are.

DaveP

 

[kambo]

hey DaveP :
i wouldnt worry about an idiot

edit: too much vodka. late in night  ;D ;D ;D

 

[kambo]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/us/wisconsin-sheriff-david-clarke-i-predicted-this/index.html

That Sheriff is one big idiot.

he is on Republican Convention  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
turn ur CNN on

 

[mattiasNYC]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/us/wisconsin-sheriff-david-clarke-i-predicted-this/index.html

That Sheriff is one big idiot.

he is on Republican Convention  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
turn ur CNN on

And watch that garbage? Am I not dumb enough already?

 

[kambo]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/us/wisconsin-sheriff-david-clarke-i-predicted-this/index.html

That Sheriff is one big idiot.

he is on Republican Convention  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
turn ur CNN on

And watch that garbage? Am I not dumb enough already?

well, this is my first time here in US for the election time!
of course i am gonna watch it  :
so much fun  ;D

we are Shaman.... so i really dont care about their racist speeches,
but, its of course disappointment for US nation !

i am speechless !

 

[lukas]

For the record, I am English but I live in France.  I am anti doctrine, so that rules out Communism and Capitalism.

I'm not sure who or what you are.DaveP

I'm  Polish, and live in this country. France lose beacouse don't wont bomb his listed building, or chicken out, or be a traitor, i... don' see none else way,... what do you talking, this is joke  story. Look what German do with Warsaw in SWW. We all are Communist, or Capitalist, if that know, wont or not. My country loose SWW, and communist takes rules (through people like Churchill,Roosevelt, ... i don't know why... we fight toghether, who encrypt enigma...who knows, ...why books, and movies lie...)...and morder people from resistance  movement(allmost so much so SWW)... control my coutry unto this day.
This is short lesson story. I think you know what capitalism is(money share through free market), socialism(money share through government - Hi taxes). Comunism (every people are equal, terror, mass stupefy ). Look now.  School teach us - we live in democracy...50 dumb people decide by vote two professors...50 people knows better than this professors - no but this is democracy rules. In wolrd story allmost every people can have defence tools, why now we have this change... beacouse teach us that life is highest value, but where is our religion, culture, honour, why we love better live than this attributes. Terrorist don't have gun license. Better than, all France go tho the hell than 1000 people? Stats...they are show how government, and system are pervert...and people in last, but if we gun banned, what this government can to with us...who knows?
Yes kambo we are drunkers, but look at our story as Nation...idiot...you use words which don't undesrstand, and maybe stay on wrong side.

sorry, my english is bad,  ...i have Russisch in school

 

[DaveP]

Cześć Lucas,
Nie ma wątpliwości, że czujesz się źle o drugiej wojnie światowej i myślę, że twoja rodzina poniosła ogromne. Mogę zrozumieć, że czujesz się zdradzony przez Brytanii i Francji, a także, ale te kraje zostały wyczerpane, kiedy Niemcy zostały pokonane i nie mamy siły, by wziąć od Rosji po jej zakończeniu.

Jesteś również rację, że polscy naukowcy po raz pierwszy rozszyfrowane zagadkę przed wojną i wydał pierwszą maszynę do Wielkiej Brytanii, został uaktualniony w czasie wojny, a nasi naukowcy mieli zbudować pierwszy komputer do decrppt nową wersję. Wiem też, że polscy piloci zestrzelili więcej samolotów niż RAF w bitwie o Anglię. Mój najlepszy przyjaciel we Francji jest synem jednego z nich, jego nazwisko jest Wilczek

Jeśli to pomaga w jakiś sposób mój ojciec walczył u boku żołnierzy polskich we Włoszech pod Monte Casino. Ale nie jestem komunistą, nigdy nie były lub będą.

Najlepiej
DaveP

Google Translation
Hi Lucas,
There is no doubt that you feel bad about the second world war and I guess that your family suffered a great deal.  I can understand that you feel betrayed by Britain and France as well, but these countries were exhausted when germany was defeated and we did not have the strength to take on Russia afterwards.

You are also right that Polish scientists first decrypted enigma before the war and gave the first machine to Britain, it was upgraded during the war and our scientists had to build the first computer to decrypt the new version.  I also know that Polish pilots shot down more planes than the RAF in the battle of Britain.  My best friend in France is the son of one of them, his name is Wilczek

If it helps you in some way, my father fought alongside Polish soldiers in Italy at Monte Casino.  But I am not a communist, never have been or will be.

Best
DaveP

 

[lukas]

Więc teraz też walczmy razem o słuszną sprawę, i nie poddawajmy się propagandzie, która płynie  z mediów, ale szukajmy sami mądrości. Bardziej wychowujmy, uczmy i przekonujmy, niż zakazujmy.

Best Lukasz

 

[dmp]

I consider the police to be "us" not "them".

I think this gets to the heart of the matter. Not everybody feels that way.
I think race is actually more correlation than cause. The police and law enforcement favor the wealthy and powerful. Statistically speaking, this correlates with people in different neighborhoods, different races, being treated differently.
As people on the high end and low end of the income scale spread further apart, the unfairness becomes more apparent to the less privileged.
In my view, this ties into the wave of populism that is sweeping the country and the world. Different people moving in the same direction. It will not end well.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I consider the police to be "us" not "them".

I think this gets to the heart of the matter. Not everybody feels that way.

Yes, that is a huge problem.

If "us" think that police are "them" that means the "us" are "them" to the police, and treated like "them".  This needs to be fixed by local community leaders supporting the police not demonizing them (many communities are already trying but the tide of popular media is overwhelming modest attempts to heal relations.).

The police routinely risk their lives trying to protect everybody, not just the wealthy. Several police departments are now changing the rules of engagement for patrols, making police work only in pairs, and sending two cars to respond to radio calls so they have back-up. This cuts the police force manpower literally in half, so police response time and quality will suffer.  Unfortunate but police need to defend themselves too.

I think race is actually more correlation than cause. The police and law enforcement favor the wealthy and powerful. Statistically speaking, this correlates with people in different neighborhoods, different races, being treated differently.

That senator didn't get special treatment. He is more powerful and more wealthy than I am (probably?).

As people on the high end and low end of the income scale spread further apart, the unfairness becomes more apparent to the less privileged.

I wrote  years ago that it was economics not race, driving crime in most poor neighborhoods. The breakdown in the nuclear family  has given us a generation of young people without good parental role models  and moral instruction.  Where is Dr Huxtable when we need him?  ???

In my view, this ties into the wave of populism that is sweeping the country and the world. Different people moving in the same direction. It will not end well.

Politicians always try to ride the wave du jour. Indeed this is not a good wave. Leaders and media don't need to pour fuel on this fire. Leaders need to be a calming influence and I think they are finally being shocked into realizing that their words can have consequences.

JR