Headphones for Mixing and Mastering

[abbey road d enfer]

One thing about the VSX, since the phones model the room, the transients are softened that same way they are in a room, by traveling through air. I can mix on them for hours with little or no fatigue, unlike straight earbuds or headphones. The new version of the software is so accurate that the soffit mounted speakers actually have height in the phones. The phantom center is like standing a few feet away from an artist and listening.

My comment was addressing the issue of listening with earbuds or headphones at dangerous levels, which is what many kids and not-so-kids do today.
The Harman curve being just an aggravating factor.
A few decades ago, tinnitus and hearing impairment were confined to industry and musicians.
Today, anyone is a potential victim.
Actually, I believe that SE's and ME's are much less at risk because they are much better educated than Joe Public.

 

[FIX]

assuming he uses the $499 version....
Any consensus on getting the $299 vs $499 version? Buy once cry once? Or is the $299 version worth the price of admission?

any version. The more expensive one just has more rooms

 

[egroys]

I got VSX on Sir Wolff's advice and I was blown away. It's difficult to explain the experience but it really lives up to the hype!

 

[john12ax7]

Demoing CanOpener and really like what it does.

Anyone tried Waves NX?

 

[ASA]

I can’t help but love the Shure SRH-840’s with aftermarket ear pads. Not reliable below 60hz or so, and just a touch heavy in the low-mids, but otherwise beautiful, balanced, and easy to mix on for hours.

 

[Whoops]

I can’t help but love the Shure SRH-840’s

they're Bass heavy, bass boosted, it's not a great reference in my opinion, I received mixes for mastering that were mixed on those headphones and like expected they were thin with reduced Low End.

In my opinion when choosing headphones for mixing or for referencing in Mastering it's extremely important that they don't have bass boost and are "more flat" under 300hz

 

[abbey road d enfer]

In my opinion when choosing headphones for mixing or for referencing in Mastering it's extremely important that they don't have bass boost and are "more flat" under 300hz

I certainly agree. However, how do you reconcile the fact that a majority of listeners now listen via headphones or car audio with overinflated LF response?
I know the music I produce is for people who will listen on their stereo, but if I had to address a younger generation I wouldn't know what to do.
I'm equally at loss with PA systems that have the so-called "bass contour", that amounts to about +14dB at 50 Hz.
I've been an adept of the straight-ish line for too long.

 

[ASA]

they're Bass heavy, bass boosted, it's not a great reference in my opinion, I received mixes for mastering that were mixed on those headphones and like expected they were thin with reduced Low End.

In my opinion when choosing headphones for mixing or for referencing in Mastering it's extremely important that they don't have bass boost and are "more flat" under 300hz

Sure, I definitely agree. I normally use the Shures to get a 60-70% mix and then pull back into my Focals to start fine-tuning things from the low-mids down. I just like the way they present the mids and highs well without being either veiled or fatiguing, and I like how their soundstage isn't too far off from the Focals in my room. A lot of other phones I've tried, especially in the price range, either stray too dark or too strident for my taste, or the soundstage is too exaggerated to make monitor-friendly choices.

 

[ASA]

they're Bass heavy, bass boosted, it's not a great reference in my opinion, I received mixes for mastering that were mixed on those headphones and like expected they were thin with reduced Low End.

In my opinion when choosing headphones for mixing or for referencing in Mastering it's extremely important that they don't have bass boost and are "more flat" under 300hz

Also, the new version that Shure just recently released aren't the same drivers, and are MUCH more bass-boosted. Hence I won't buy them, and keep picking up lightly used old models on eBay.

 

[Whoops]

I certainly agree. However, how do you reconcile the fact that a majority of listeners now listen via headphones or car audio with overinflated LF response?

I would not say for sure "majority" so I don't agree to a certain degree as I don't think it's universal.
In the 90's, Discams, walkmans and car radios used to have a "Bass Boost" or "Mega Bass" control in the front panel, normally with 3 levels of bass boost,
with the trend to have the "Bass Boost" included in the actual audio, or just start using the region under 80hs that we listen and feel, that went from 2000 on, I don't see any present day equipment with a "Bass boost" button on the front panel. They are normally inside a Menu/audio/settings. It happened like that in the now obsolete iPod, and it's like that in modern car radios and also inside Spotify apps and similar.

There's a lot of music nowadays that takes usage of the sub frequencies, and the good productions/mixes still sound good to me in any reproduction system, being it Bluetooth speaker, car radio, or headphones.

There's an average of Low end energy in commercial records, some a bit above and some a bit under that average.
But I was talking about being really off the average, having so little bass that you can't feel the foundation of the Bass Drum and Bass, or having to much and distort and fart out any modern reproduction system.

I know the music I produce is for people who will listen on their stereo, but if I had to address a younger generation I wouldn't know what to do.

Well,
you would just do the same as I do, I ask the clients for 4 to 5 songs that they like and artists that inspired them for their work,
then you can calibrate your brain with that and make your work be on that average.
Personally I'm constantly updating myself to the new trends and to the clients aesthetics, I don't want to ever be outdated and say something like "the only music that sounded good was in the 70s and present music is just crap", I don't feel that and I'm not entering that old cycle were a generation always says that the new generation is lost.

I grew up in the 90s, and I remember quite well how the average person listened to music, they had very cheap consumer compact hifi units at home that sounded like crap had no sub and not much above 10khz then no one had the speakers in a good position any way, then there were those portable boom boxes that sounded pretty bad also, walkmans and cassettes sounded terrible for each listen the sound would degrade a lot, then most consumer headphones/earbuds at the time were miserable also.
Average standard Car Radios and car speakers were also quite bad.

Give me a Bose/JBL bluetooth speaker playing audio from iphone with spotify at any time compared to any of the systems I described.
Also give me any Apple Earbuds compared to any earbuds from the 90's.
Or any 80€ Modern Pioneer car Radio with 80€ JBL (or any know brand) car speakers to any car systems from the 90s, 80s or 70s

I still gladly accept any 90s Hi-End Hifi systems though

I'm equally at loss with PA systems that have the so-called "bass contour", that amounts to about +14dB at 50 Hz.
I've been an adept of the straight-ish line for too long.

In Live Sound I always run the subs in Mono and I send a different mix to them, I think the term is "subs on aux send",
I then have full control of the subs and independent of the Tops/line array.
I find that usually my master send to the SUBs is -10dbs to -15dbs compared to the level I send to the Tops Line Array.

 

[MicMaven]

Gentlemen - I decry the bass-heavy sound often heard today - especially from bass-heavy speakers and headphones. Young folks like bass because it is cool - not because it sounds realistic or accurate. Besides, it is just another teenage fad to cheese off parents.

Standing in a car stereo showroom, I once commented to a couple young bucks that I do not understand why they want such artificially inflated bass. I said I own and (can almost) play a real electric bass guitar, and was once in a band, so I know what real bass sounds like. They replied they don't care if it is not realistic - they just want pounding bass because they think it is cool.

So, I rather doubt it is about accuracy or realism - it is simply what is popular. James

 

[Brian Roth]

Gentlemen - I decry the bass-heavy sound often heard today - especially from bass-heavy speakers and headphones. Young folks like bass because it is cool - not because it sounds realistic or accurate. Besides, it is just another teenage fad to cheese off parents.

Standing in a car stereo showroom, I once commented to a couple young bucks that I do not understand why they want such artificially inflated bass. I said I own and (can almost) play a real electric bass guitar, and was once in a band, so I know what real bass sounds like. They replied they don't care if it is not realistic - they just want pounding bass because they think it is cool.

So, I rather doubt it is about accuracy or realism - it is simply what is popular. James

I remember decades ago with guys began installing insanely loud systems in their cars. I was walking through a parking lot when one guy drove by in a "rag top" convertable car. The roof fabric was literally moving up with every kick drum beat. <g>

 

[fazer]

I use PT and Studio One. PT has had surround for 10 plus years and dolby atmos recently added. Studio One just added Binaural Rendering for Headphones and has surround panners as well as Atmos for mixing on headphones. It seems to me that Headphones will be the primary monitor system for most of these sound and post production deliverables. I have not played with Studio Ones Binaural Render plug-in but plan to. I see VSX, Realphones,Canopener, Sound ID, Waves binaural plug Ins will be available but all the DAW manufactures will have their own plug in.

 

[GrandG]

Just wanted to chime in with my 2 cents, Ive tried quite few different cans for mix and master over my 10 years audio journey, mid tier offerings from Audio Technica, Beyerdynamic, Focal and Sony (If anyone is interested in all specific models, I can try to compile a list), what has translated best for me are my sony 7509, very narrow, no thrill, all buisness, very focused treble, many people will probably find it too sharp, especially if you crank the volume, but I preferably mix at lower volumes and still have great spot mixing. They are narrow to the point where your brain might have a hard time distinguish between elements at first but ultimately if you go wide on this, they are wide everywhere and its very easy to understand where wide starts to trade off for the punch/aggression/forward motion of the mid which has been key to me trabslating primary hip hop, EDM and currently abit of metal to as many devices as possible. What has worked least well for me are open cans, especially a popular offering from beyerdynamic, the DT 990 Pro, they are amazing headphones at the price but for mixing/mastering I really struggled to compile a consistent result that would translate everytime, but whats most important, what I and many have probably heard countless times, but that I can also agree upon, its about learning and knowing your cans, a good way to achieve this for me is simple referencing alot on different audio setups and listen to how it translates, but in the end, just mix alot on them, but it really helps to find something that translates the core elements of your mixes naturally to you and then work out its "kinks".

Besides the 7509, the Japanese import "M1ST" seems like the ultimate successor to the classic studio MDR lines if you are looking for a closed can (For open, that would be Sonys MV1 thats available internationally), I myself is saving up for one, easy enough import and plenty of affordable offerings on ebay from Japan, tho for most countries, be vary of potential import costs.

TlR
Sony MDR 7509 - Laser highs, narrow, closed cans, very suitable for the application and can be had at a very affordable price at times on ebay, especially if you scout auctions and dont mind it being a used pair.
(Ultimately I would steer you towards a pair of Japan import sony mdr m1st but as Ive yet to try a pair, I cant say for certain and 7509 is a great tester if the sound signature is up your alley or not)

/Grand G

 

[kags]

I use PT and Studio One. PT has had surround for 10 plus years and dolby atmos recently added. Studio One just added Binaural Rendering for Headphones and has surround panners as well as Atmos for mixing on headphones. It seems to me that Headphones will be the primary monitor system for most of these sound and post production deliverables. I have not played with Studio Ones Binaural Render plug-in but plan to. I see VSX, Realphones,Canopener, Sound ID, Waves binaural plug Ins will be available but all the DAW manufactures will have their own plug in.

Sonarworks just released an “add-on” that adds binaural processing to their SoundID plug-in. I’m on the fence as to it’s application in mixing, but it does sound good for entertainment. Maybe I’ll get used to it.

I demoed Sony’s VME (Virtual Monitor Environment) at Sony Pictures last week. They put mics in your ears and play test tones via an Atmos system to create a custom HRTF. Then listening to an Atmos mix on headphones with the HRTF applied produces an extraordinary immersive playback. You actually hear distance and front-to-back panning. I demoed it on Sony’s new open-back headphones which sounded very good in this application. I’ve never been a fan of the 7506, but this pair felt good.

 

[k brown]

It isn't terribly hard to do better than 7506; just in terms of spatial imaging, they are among the worst I've heard - they mangle binaural recordings badly. Even the lowly Koss Porta Pro beats them in that regard.

 

[Whoops]

It isn't terribly hard to do better than 7506;

I Love my 7506, can't live without them really, they have an amazing real low end that translates well to other systems, not Bass hyped neither lack bass, just right on the spot.

It's amazing how different we all are, and what a pair that someone considers bad headphones are considered "Lifesaver" for other people

 

[k brown]

I Love my 7506, can't live without them really, they have an amazing real low end that translates well to other systems, not Bass hyped neither lack bass, just right on the spot.

It's amazing how different we all are, and what a pair that someone considers bad headphones are considered "Lifesaver" for other people

I was specifically referring to spatial imaging and the accurate localisation of binaural recordings - not tonal balance (though I don't like that either ;- )

 

[fazer]

I’ve never been a fan of the 7506, but this pair felt good.

I’ve used 7506’s forever for tracking and mixing. Lately it’s HD 600’s with binaural and frequency correction and loving them for listening. Using Realphones with eq and sometimes room modeling with extended bass. I’m really liking it. I need to see what what the sound ID binaural plug in does.

 

[baaccs]

I Love my 7506, can't live without them really, they have an amazing real low end that translates well to other systems, not Bass hyped neither lack bass, just right on the spot.

It's amazing how different we all are, and what a pair that someone considers bad headphones are considered "Lifesaver" for other people

I just left a response today on another post. Talking about how the Sony 7506 headphones translate really well with the low-end. Not hyped and the mid forward sound really works for me. I am 90% all in with the Sonys. Tried others, but when going to the car all other headphones just do not translate well to an actually frequency response. With the Sonys my kites are spot on in other listening environments.