Headphones for Mixing and Mastering

[MicMaven]

If you didn't understand what "Winston OBoogie" was saying then I can rephrase it.

Ha! I understood you the first time -- I was just poking a little fun! Winning a Grammy does not make one an expert on good headphones. But there was nothing serious in what I said! James

 

[Whoops]

I never won a Grammy, but I was nominated for one in 2021, funny enough the nomination was a for a work I did entirely on Headphones, true story

 

[MicMaven]

I never won a Grammy, but I was nominated for one in 2021, funny enough the nomination was a for a work I did entirely on Headphones, true story

Good story! James

 

[john12ax7]

No love for the Beyer DT880s? They are intentionally less treble-boosted and the "pro" version is marketed explicitly for mixing and mastering (still bright, though).

I have the DT770 Pro and wow were they bright when new, total happy face eq going on. They've mellowed quite a bit over time though. Ever compared the different Beyer to each other?

 

[Gold]

Ear and ear canal shape greatly influence how a headphone is perceived. That’s why perceptions vary so much on particular models. Even more so than speakers..

 

[C12VR]

I have the DT770 Pro and wow were they bright when new, total happy face eq going on. They've mellowed quite a bit over time though. Ever compared the different Beyer to each other?

No sadly. And given I know they are even brighter than the 880s, I'm not all that enthused about shelling out for them.

 

[k brown]

Mixing on headphones - mm, yeah if you have to.

Mastering on headphones - the pros just don't (except for listening-for and fixing small defects).

 

[iomegaman]

I think having several headphones to compare makes a difference...I got the Slate VSX headphones and discovered they are only very slightly different than the M&O MOOH-BE00BT Beryllium which can be had for 1/3 or 1/5th the price depending on which software version of Slate you spring for...

I honestly thought the "Mixing room" plugin thing was snake oil, however I have gradually changed my mind as the EQ curves DO help you pick up on different sonic discrepancies...

So I start my mix on the Andrew Scheps recommended Sony MDR 7505's because you need a baseline to start any project...I then move over to the Slates/M&O's and then listen as well on a set of Grado RS-1's the originals... because they are what I like...

Eventually I find very little difference between the ear condoms and often people arguing over what frequency a gnats fart is.

 

[ricardo]

Anyone consider the fact that probably 10x more music is heard on headphones and earbuds than speakers?

I used to design headphones in the last Millenium when the main 'measuring setup' was the B&K artificial ear. We had our own ideas about how 'perfect' headphones should measure on that setup. No idea what is used today and how valid they are. My $0.02 is that people/ears vary ALOT.

I like Beyer DT770 Pro cos they are closest to how I think 'perfect' speakers should sound except for a bit too much bass. Also they do a good job isolating you from ambient noise.

 

[Whoops]

Anyone consider the fact that probably 10x more music is heard on headphones and earbuds than speakers?

I don't know if it's 10x times more, but for sure music nowadays is heard on headphones/earbuds and small portable bluetooth speakers, I would say that's close to 80%.

I rarely see any "common person" or "common music listener" using an Hi-Fi system, it's Bluetooth speakers all the way.
Just check the used prices of high quality 90's Hi-Fi systems, they cost peanuts nowdays.

One thing for sure I will replace the Auratone's in my studio for a small common Boose or JBL bluetooth speaker, I think it's more usable at the present to be able to monitor also in something similar to what people will use, I find the Auratone's are outdated for present days and don't translate very well to any present system, still like it's Midrange though

 

[ubxf]

i would say leave the Auratone and add the bluetooth speaker

 

[Whoops]

i would say leave the Auratone and add the bluetooth speaker

Yes,
the situation with the common Bluetooth speakers like Boose, JBL or Marshall is that they have a Sub.
Some of them are even quite bass heavy, even if that Sub or Bass sounds a bit artificial people listen music with it. The Auratones don't have sub, and start to roll off in the lower mids, I actually got used to it's sound and maybe it's strange but I even like to listen music in the Auratones, but as an alternative small monitoring system for the sake of testing present day translation to what people actually use the Bluetooth speaker seems to be a good choice.

 

[johnsonic]

Anyone use the Slate modeling headphones?

 

[iomegaman]

Anyone use the Slate modeling headphones?

I got a set about a 2 months ago...they are actually pretty decent, although the build quality is a bit "iffy" according to users...
Here's the thing, they are almost identical to the M&O MOOH BEOOBT's...frankly I think they ARE the same with a few tweaks...I mentioned this on GS and Slate responded with something along the lines of a slight frequency weakness in the B&O's that he said they fixed...

Overall the software is what makes the Slates useful...its another one of those marketing schemes where the hardware functions as a dongle, but once you've locked the software into your iLok it doesn't care what you use...it's basically the same thing as the Townsend Labs Mic for headphones...

I saw Greg Wells posted that he was amazed by them in a recent mix session where he was not near a good room...I dunno...
I bought a set of the B&O's as soon as I got the Slates to compare them and honestly the difference is not even worth mentioning, except that the B&O's ALSO has a blue tooth connection...which Slate does not...making them a great backup and option for when the Slates break.

For the record this is my 2nd pair of the B&O's and the bass response on these things is freaking amazing...
The Slate rooms are actually quite useful, but in the same way a mic emulation changes the EQ curve, it does add some latency so its really only for mixing and borders on gimmick in my opinion...if you are mastering on headphones good luck to you.

I'm waiting for Slate (or anyone) to do a Dolby room...which should be interesting.

You have to search to get the B&O's got mine on ebay for about $125 with shipping...

 

[FIX]

Keep in mind that Andrew could mix a great record in cardboard box...

I would highly recommend the Slate VSX headphones. His newest version are sweet. The NRG room, which I've been in, sounds just like the room. It's a bit scary good. I mixed a record on them a month ago, and it was one of the best I've even done. Highly suggest trying them. (Disclosure, I helped design the headphones)

Plus as far as Masting engineers go, Most of the guys I know have several headphones that they use for various checks and balances.

 

[iomegaman]

Keep in mind that Andrew could mix a great record in cardboard box...

I would highly recommend the Slate VSX headphones. His newest version are sweet. The NRG room, which I've been in, sounds just like the room. It's a bit scary good. I mixed a record on them a month ago, and it was one of the best I've even done. Highly suggest trying them. (Disclosure, I helped design the headphones)

Plus as far as Masting engineers go, Most of the guys I know have several headphones that they use for various checks and balances.

The NRG room and Sonoma are really the only rooms I use...I agree the NRG room sounds incredible...it's kind of unnerving though...it feels a bit like "too good to be true" and as a skeptic I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop.


I really wonder how much our perceptions have been "tweaked" because a lot of the technology that was mega-bucks in years past seems just in reach for pennies on the dollar now...

It's that last 5%-10% that you have to ask is it worth a $60,000 room or a $5000 compressor that is now available for <$500 plugin...?
It seems in a lot of this we can get to +90% in the box...which I am reluctant to consider..in spite of the appeal and the facts.

 

[Gold]

We

It's that last 5%-10% that you have to ask is it worth a $60,000 room or a $5000 compressor that is now available for <$500 plugin...?
It seems in a lot of this we can get to +90% in the box...which I am reluctant to consider..in spite of the appeal and the facts.

Today I mastered a 6 song EP directly from tape to lacquer using Shaker Desk. It really does sound better than going into the computer and cutting from files. It makes more of a difference than it should. Just sounds more alive.

 

[andYz00m]

In contrast, I find the ATH-M50 have heavy, thick lows with weak mids and modest treble. Not excessive bass, but thicker than, say, the AKG K240 which I find almost blandly neutral and honest with a flat, even response curve across the range, which is not a bad thing, but not musically exciting for listening long term. I much prefer the AT-M40 which is far more neutral and balanced top to bottom than the ATH-M50, and more musically exciting than the K240. I sold them because they have multiple ways to fold flat or reverse ear cups, making them floppy sloppy and awkward to handle. I do not like having to sort them out every time I put them on. (Yeah, I know that has no impact on audio quality, but one tends to avoid tools which are awkward to use, even if they do the job.)

Happily, I recently acquired the Austrian Audio Hi-X15 (which uses the same driver as its much more expensive siblings) and I am very pleased with both its sound, build and comfort. Not quite as neutral as the AKG k240, and rather close to the analytical, yet musical, ATH-M40 in sound - they a very comfortable and affordable at $110. Well balanced across the frequency curve with good articulation and detail without being brash, sibilant, or shrill as some other, especially open back, cans are.

And that is just MY take. Your mileage may differ. James K8JHR

I actually have a ton of the ATHM40s as well for tracking in the studio and I do like those. Cheap comfy, and good sounding.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I actually have a ton of the ATHM40s as well for tracking in the studio and I do like those. Cheap comfy, and good sounding.

I had a lot of them, but had to retire them as the foam would disintegrate and end up messing clothes and skin. I had a few angry ladies complaining.
I orderd some replacement cushions, but could never put them in place.

 

[k brown]

I do a lot of binaural and quasi-binaural recording, and believe it or not, of all the phones I've tried, the humble little Koss Porta-Pros throw the best 3D binaural reproduction. Their tonal balance actually also translates surprisingly well to a wide range of quality speakers/monitors; especially in the crucial midrange.

It's surprised me how many 'industry standards' mangle binaural pretty badly.