No love for the Beyer DT880s?
Sonarworks seem to love them, and with individual calibration, they go toe-to-toe with calibrated HD 600/650's
https://www.sonarworks.com/blog/reviews/beyerdynamic-dt-880-pro-studio-headphone-reviewExcellent deal too, you can buy a pair directly from Sonarworks that come with an individual calibration profile (L/R calibrated separately).
Definitely a great value.
I don't know if it's 10x times more, but for sure music nowadays is heard on headphones/earbuds and small portable bluetooth speakers, I would say that's close to 80%.
I rarely see any "common person" or "common music listener" using an Hi-Fi system, it's Bluetooth speakers all the way.
Agreed, probably more useful than something like Auratones nowadays. Some might not care to admit that, but that's just the way it is.
Woah sir, beg to differ. Rumors sounds amazing to my ears. I use this as one of a couple main references for low and high end as well as dynamics.
I love the sound of Rumors album, last week I was even having a conversation with some Musicians about it, they were telling how much they enjoyed and praised the sound of Rumors.
rumors is a bit ducked but i wouldn't call it muddy personally. it sounds nice and nostalgic that way
It's definitely a very "round" sound. It sounds like it came straight out of a period console with very little actual mixing aside from levels, panning, and some reverb on vocals and maybe a few other elements. Nothing unusual for that period of course. A nice palette cleanser too compared to most stuff nowadays that is typically very pristine/hyped/in your face. But of course...the primary thing that makes Rumours (and most Fleetwood Mac stuff) is that it's simply good songwriting and composition and melodies/harmonies.
I use HD600s with FR compensation
I am also a fan of the Sennheiser HD600/650. I replace the ear pads once a year (they are about $45 and just snap on) to maintain a consistent seal. I also use SoundID freq calibration for my phones and I’ve had great success with mixes and masters that I’ve had to do on phones, especially since COVID forced more remote work. I’ve mixed and/or mastered several very successful commercial albums over the past few years using HD650s instead of my studio monitors. Not one client noticed a change in my consistency or end result. Hopefully that’s a good thing ;-)
Some kind of correction is a must, even using a general profile in SoundID to at least de-exaggerate the negative aspects of a given pair of headphones. The main advantage of calibrated headphones over speakers is that the room is no longer a factor. Add in good cross feed simulation and it can sound pretty darn natural compared to a pair of speakers. There is also the differences between closed and open back headphones. It's said that open (and semi-open) can give a more natural presentation. Closed backs are more sealed and can therefore hype the bass a bit. Great for tracking though of course. The biggest difference though is that you just won't physically feel the music in the same way, since it's not hitting any other part of your body. And I'm not talking about high levels and lots of bass. Simply the difference between music being around you versus going straight into your ears. But I don't know how essential that is to produce a good mix or even master.
Maybe my setup can serve as a good point of reference to help others decide on a good middle ground to approach the whole headphone thing:
SoundSource (systemwide plugin host) > Sonarworks SoundID (correction) > Goodhertz CanOpener Studio (crossfeed) > Topping DX3 Pro+ > HD600
I also constructed my own cable from Mogami/Neutrik/Cardas components that produced a little more openness in the higher frequencies. But that was just icing on the cake. The stock HD600 cable was simply too long and sort of flimsy, so my primary motivation was to address those problems and simply eliminate the cable as any real potential bottleneck in the chain.
This setup is pretty much as neutral and natural as you can get at a very decent price point. The Topping measures very well in all major aspects and priced very well. I've read about some quality control issues with the screens, but I haven't experienced that. It sounds exactly like it should...meaning it doesn't sound like anything at all. I can do mix checks on a friend's Genelec 8040's and it's pretty darn close to the same. The only thing that is sometimes difficult to judge is reverb, but that's a reality between headphones and speakers. I will say, the gain in my particular setup it isn't always enough for mixing (when stems are peaking around -18db) since SoundID and CanOpener both shave off 10db each for internal headroom with all of the correction going on. That's a 20db loss. So I typically need to put simple gain on my master in the DAW until I am in the mastering phase and bring all the levels up. Easy workaround. Keep in mind, this is not necessarily a problem with the amp, but rather that the HD600's are harder to drive (high impedence). I could swap them out for something like a pair of LCD-X's (low impedence) and would get a lot of gain back. Perhaps if you have the money and just want to go right to the "top", the LCD-X (2021) with SoundID and CanOpener and something like the modest DX3 Pro+, you would have a very solid and accurate setup and one you would likely not need to "upgrade" and could probably be fine without speakers to actually mix and master on, at least until you felt like you needed speakers or have the opportunity to work on them more regularly. That's based on my understanding of the LCD-X as accurate across the spectrum with some calibration, even down in the lows that can be a little dodgy with the HD600/650 even with calibration. I've also read over and over that the LCD-X's have a larger or more natural "sound stage" that are truer to speakers than maybe the HD600's might. You can get close with the HD600/650's, but there is some concern in accuracy in the lower frequencies since the drivers naturally do not put out a whole lot of bass to begin with and need to be corrected quite a bit. But, that's also only really a concern if you're working with bass-heavy material. Otherwise, the HD600's are a great value. DT880 Pro as well from all I've read and heard. There was an Audio Technica pair that Sonarworks reviewed as well that do pretty well with correction/calibration. Search around and see which ones take correction the best. Not all do given bizarre stock frequency responses / driver limitations.
I also have Sony MDR-V6's (predecessor to the 7506 if I recall correctly) that I've had for over 10 years (they were also our stock headphones for video production at my old job). They absolutely benefited from the general calibration in SoundID (it got rid of the hype) and they are super respectable that way. I will use them occasionally for mix checks (bass is nice since they are closed backs), but those primarily live with my field recorder
Also, the comment on ear pads is seriously underrated. Most of what people (self-proclaimed audiophiles) think of as headphones "burning in" and mellowing out is really just the ear pads breaking
down and the perceived frequency response is skewed haha. It's good to keep the ear pads and therefore your headphone performance consistent. Also...for your health. Cleaning them now and again is a good thing, especially if you're using them a lot.
All of that to say, I think any reasonable middle round that uses a proven set of headphones, a well-measuring amp that is enough to power those headphones, and then utilizing some kind of correction (individual calibration if you can afford it) and a reliable crossfeed simulation, you're going to be enough in the ballpark to produce reliable mixes (and probably masters) that translate well. Mix checks on other sources (bluetooth speakers, car, earbuds, etc.) are still important though.
As for choosing an amp, I did buy the DX3 Pro+ based on Audio Science Review, and I am not disappointed. I think their measurements can be trusted to at least put you in the ballpark (and save you some money that might be spent either buying something too expensive, or buying and selling amps). They also love the JDS Atom over there..something like that and a Topping DAC would be a very solid and affordable combo, and the rest of your budget can be spent on a good set of headphones. Just a reference point. You'll ultimately need to research for yourself based on what your needs ultimately are.
I might have more to say on that as the thread progresses, but I feel like I run my mouth enough already on this forum when I do say something haha.
Just joking.....good for you.
