how green is my coffee (pot).

[JohnRoberts]

I an conscious of energy efficiency... My power company just advised me that last month I used 14% less power than my energy efficient neighbors (thanks to my kick ass mitsubishi heat pump).

Today I am talking about my new hot water electric coffee kettle. They make high tech electric kettles with temperature regulation. Water heated to only 195'F or so, just shy of boiling, makes better tasting coffee.

The energy saving win-win is that it takes a bunch of extra energy to make hot water boil. The classic relationship for heating water is that it takes one calorie of heat energy per gram of water to increase the temperature 1 degree C (below boiling). But to heat that 1 G of hot water at 100C to boiling (water vapor) takes an additional 540 calories per gram.

A regulated kettle that stops heating the water just short of boiling, will also save a bunch of energy.

JR

PS: I don't know if this would save the planet, but it should make better coffee.

 

[rob_gould]

Across a country the size of the USA, it would probably make a measurable difference if implemented universally.

I remember learning at school about how the UK power grid had to ready itself for the halftime whistle in big football matches to ensure there was adequate juice for when people got up en mass and turned on their kettles for their half time cup of tea.

 

[PermO]

As long as I have gas I will use my kettle...



A good English kettle is very efficient in heating small amounts of water...

 

[JohnRoberts]

As long as I have gas I will use my kettle...

View attachment 83718

A good English kettle is very efficient in heating small amounts of water...

If it uses the double wall thermal insulation like modern stainless steel thermos technology that could cut down heat radiation loss. The whistle is powered by steam so consuming the extra 500 calories per gram of water for that much. Of course we don't convert all the water to steam.

My new electric kettle has a temperature setting for tea also.

JR

 

[Tubetec]

Some boil a full kettle everytime , I generally only boil what I need .
I boil with the lid open also , even though I loose a little extra energy heating its only small ,
My old stainless electric kettle broke recently so I got a ceramic one ,its definately faster , I found many cheaper plastic kettles give a nasty taste to the boiled water particularly when new , any tendency for steam to condense and run back down inside makes matters worse . I had a bet with the guys I worked with about the time it takes to boil lid open or closed , They guessed x1.5 for its time to boil lid off vs lid on , it only made a difference of a few seconds when we tested the theory .

An old fashioned 'tea cosy' is a great way of saving energy and keeping the drink hot , can easily be adapted to a coffee pot also .
Im still very fond of my thermos flask when Im out on a job , proper homemade cups of tea in the van on the way to and from make a big difference .

 

[JohnRoberts]

good application of the scientific method...

JR

 

[pucho812]

I wonder about the little things like that. Our coffee pot at the studio and other things. They stay plugged in all the time even when not powered. I wonder if they are vampire power devices, those are devices that leech energy even when not in use. Who knows. It's a fairly new to me phrase. At any rate our coffee maker is an all in one system, load beans and water, it grinds and makes by the cup from a menu of items(coffee, expresso, etc). All we have to do is empty the container for the used grounds and fill it when necessary.
I don't know if it's more wasteful or not to do it this way but it does reduce having left overs at the end of the night. We have already filled the ice cube trays plenty full with coffee so that when people do iced coffee it does not water down.

I wonder if the machine consumes more power then average or less power then average.

 

[JohnRoberts]

The popular Bunn coffee makers do keep a reservoir of water heated 24x7 so that will consume some extra energy.

Many microprocessor controlled appliances only sleep the micro instead of rebooting every time a button is pressed so will consume a little power but not enough to worry about IMO.

JR

 

[Tubetec]

I hate those devices with a 'soft' power button ,
My expresso machine makes the perfect cup after only a minute or two powered on , but it will happily sit for 30 minutes before powering down automatically ,
Even stuff with a soft power button on the front still requires a proper back panel on/off under EU regs as far as I know .

 

[john12ax7]

Water heated to only 195'F or so, just shy of boiling, makes better tasting coffee.

I will need to try this. How big of a difference does it make?

 

[JohnRoberts]

reportedly a big difference, I have been scrubbing off some extra heat before I pour the hot water into my pour-over for over a decade. Bunn coffee makers pre-heat their water to 195'F +/-

There is an expensive fru-fru coffee maker (Technivorm KBGV Moccamaster Select) that people rave about.. I went to their website and they proudly explain their secret sauce, temperature regulation.

I scrub off the extra heat by turning off the kettle before a vigorous boil, and put the hot water into a thermos first (to heat the thermos and cool the water).

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

Today my regulated kettle arrived.

I didn't expect a huge difference because I was already trying to manage my brew water temperature to be <200'F. To my surprise after first heating one kettle of water to clear the pot, my first proper brew using exactly 195' water was even better than I expected.

It's really nice when a plan comes together. More good news is how this simplifies my morning brew machinations. My old kettle was the exact same power, but this one is faster, stopping short of boiling, it beeps twice when its ready (like road runner).

I think I'll keep it.

JR

PS; I already removed the tea basket... I have a proper tea pot, but might experiment with regulated tea water temps, but not until cold weather. August in MS is not hot tea weather.

 

[JohnRoberts]

After a few days with my new improved temperature regulated electric kettle, my morning routine is simpler, I just pour the precise temperature hot water into my pour over rig. No more juggling to scrub off excess temperature.

Not only is the coffee still tasting better, I am drinking my morning coffee faster. My sense is that the coffee flavor now is milder, less acidic.

JR

PS: Of course this morning the motor inside my drum coffee roaster (HOTTOP) stalled and didn't start turning, until I gave it a manual assist. It has been a good soldier but after a decade in regular use it is due for a refresh. I have repaired it a few times before. Now I'm leaning toward making it my backup roaster and buying a new one.

 

[hodad]

My sense is that the coffee flavor now is milder, less acidic.

JR

Your SENSE? Doesn't this list deserve a comprehensive double blind study? Thorough & comprehensive measurements of old coffee vs. new coffee to see if there are empirical differences that might back up this "sense" you have?

 

[JohnRoberts]

No, I am the expert about how my coffee tastes to me... QED

JR

 

[hodad]

Yes. As long as you've convinced yourself that your coffee now tastes better, nothing else matters. If it's a placebo effect, who cares? Either way, it's working.

 

[john12ax7]

Did my own experiment today. Regular coffee maker cup vs using heated but not boiling water. The lower temperature had a different flavor and less bitter tasting. The difference was clearly noticeable.

 

[JohnRoberts]

oh oh... don't tell anybody they'll think you self delusional.

I have long heard that it makes a difference but it appears I was not scraping off enough temperature, before. Now it is precise (195'F) easier, faster, and tastes better.

I already use a variant on this technique when brewing beer. There is a step in preparing the wort where we extract the flavor from ground roast barley and malts. The advice is to remove the brew bags full of grounds before the wort boils to avoid bitter flavor notes. I don't even put the ground roast malt/barley into the pot until I have already removed the brew pot from the heat,,, closer to 180'F than boiling... My beer tastes good too.

Life it too short for inferior beverages

JR

 

[hodad]

oh oh... don't tell anybody they'll think you self delusional.

Someone (not you) actually conducted an experiment before declaring any difference.

You, on the other hand.....


EDIT: I too use an electric kettle--it's a $20 model, nothing fancy, but it's served me well for 6 or 7 years. There are times when I make a cup immediately after it boils, and there are times when I'm busy with something else and the water has a few minutes to drop in temperature before I make my coffee. I personally have noticed no difference, but I also have never controlled for all the variables--did I use more coffee for this cup, or was the coffee ground finer for that one. Did I maybe fill this one a little fuller?

I may one day do a more thorough experiment to see if I can detect any real difference. Unless and until I do, I'll remain skeptical of your claims (and even 12ax7's), but I'm also not going to assert that there's no appreciable difference between the two.

 

[JohnRoberts]

My 195'F coffee still tastes better than before when I used a slightly higher brew temperature.

Multiple web sources cite an ideal brewing range of 195'-205'F. Reportedly brewing above 205 over extracts bitter flavor elements from the coffee. This is a completely different mechanism than burning coffee (literally oxidizing oils in the coffee) from leaving the pot on the heater too long.

I am rethinking my original thesis about how much energy this saves by stopping short of boiling the water. The 500+ calories per gram of water turned to steam would count if the entire pot was boiled away, but only a small fraction of the water gets turned to steam, so the energy savings is most likely the linear 195'/212' ratio of 91% for a modest but real 9% energy saving. My regulated kettle has the same 1500W heat output as my previous kettle and I can see the water boiling on its way to 195'. They could probably avoid that tiny loss by heating the water more slowly but I really like the quick heat time.

The optimal range of 195' to 205' may be related to personal taste preferences, if routinely adding cream and sugar a little extra sharpness may not be objectionable. I drink my coffee black (I have since serving in the army) so I may be more sensitive to any over extraction. Note: we could use even lower brew temperature if we hold the grounds in contact with the water longer. I have made refrigerator coffee by mixing the grounds with cold water and letting it sit in the refrigerator over night. The next day I pour it through a filter to remove the grounds.

One of my favorite personal sayings is that life is too short to tolerate inferior beverages.I practice what I preach with my personal coffee roasting, and beer brewing. I even have a theory about psycho-active beverages like coffee and beer. Many people learn to tolerate the initially undesirable flavors of beer and black coffee, to get the payoff. A buzz from the ethyl alcohol in beer, or the wake up kick from caffeine. Coffee drinkers can offset the bitter tastes in coffee with sugar and cream. Beer drinkers tend to gravitate to always drinking a single "favorite" brand. Favorite because they are accustomed to that known taste profile.

Drinking good beers are like sampling different kinds of bread in a bakery. Good coffee likewise doesn't need to be buffered by sucrose and lactose.

Of course opinions vary I just want everybody to enjoy their beverages as much as I do.

JR