It would be a win if you don't take the marketing campaign, needed to get Americans to change their habits, into account.
how green is my coffee (pot).
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It would be a win if you don't take the marketing campaign, needed to get Americans to change their habits, into account.
When you control for the variables in making coffee you’ll see it all makes a difference. When making espresso it all becomes more important. If you don’t get everything right it doesn’t come out well. Grind, amount of coffee, amount and temperature of the water, brewing time.
Coffee nerds suggest that RO (reverse osmosis) filtered water is too pure to make great coffee. They suggest adding back some minerals (for hardness) and buffering to control acidity. Sure seems like too much work for me.
There is a company (Third Wave Water) selling water additives for about $1/gallon... I haven't tried this but might experiment.
JR
There is a company (Third Wave Water) selling water additives for about $1/gallon... I haven't tried this but might experiment.
JR
With apologies to Stephen Crane:
In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
Who, squatting upon the ground,
Held hisheart coffee in his hands,
Andate drank of it.
I said, “Is it good, friend?”
“It is bitter—bitter,” he answered;
“But I like it
“Because it is bitter,
“And because it is myheart coffee."
In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
Who, squatting upon the ground,
Held his
And
I said, “Is it good, friend?”
“It is bitter—bitter,” he answered;
“But I like it
“Because it is bitter,
“And because it is my
Allow me to provide another opportunity to make fun of my coffee...
I have already shared the anecdotal results from using my temperature regulated kettle (IMO it improved the flavor).
Coincidentally about two weeks ago the motor in my old drum roaster failed to turn the drum. I was able to get it turning with a manual assist and roasted my green coffee beans. The roaster was 12 years or more old and had been repaired a couple times, so it was due for a refresh. The only better roasters are semi-commercial and thousands of dollars more, so I went with a new top of the line model from the same brand (Hottop) drum roaster. I am generally impressed with ergonomic (human interface) design improvements. I just finished my second roast with the new roaster and I think I will keep it.
I slightly over roasted the first roast (too dark) because I didn't have a good understanding of the temperature display. The new roaster has two temperature displays one for the bean temperature and a second one for the hot air temperature. The old roaster only had one temperature display that was somewhere between those two.
in addition to those new changes with steep learning curve. I started a new experiment. Popular wisdom from the coffee nerds (a lot worse than me), is that RO water is too pure to make great coffee. A commercial solution (Third Wave Water) offers a $1 gallon solution. A small packed of magic minerals; Magnesium sulfate, Calcium Citrate, Sodium Chloride (aka table salt).
My first experiment is somewhat corrupted by the too dark roasted beans but I think I perceive a subtle taste difference. My suspicion is that it is a PH thing, affecting the acidity fo the water that will obviously impact extraction and acidity of the brewed product.
Tomorrow I will report back on less dark roasted beans, but another variable confounding this experiment is that the new roaster came with an 8# sampler pack of different green coffee origins. Today I roasted some Brazil Mogiana Ponta da Serra. I routinely buy Brazilian coffee but don't recognize this particular one. I suspect the sampler is loaded up with good but slow moving or odd lots coffees. I just checked their website and they have zero Brazil green beans in stock. The ponta da sierra was premium priced when they had it. In fact I don't see any South American Green coffee which is unusual.
Mo lata start laughing.
JR
I have already shared the anecdotal results from using my temperature regulated kettle (IMO it improved the flavor).
Coincidentally about two weeks ago the motor in my old drum roaster failed to turn the drum. I was able to get it turning with a manual assist and roasted my green coffee beans. The roaster was 12 years or more old and had been repaired a couple times, so it was due for a refresh. The only better roasters are semi-commercial and thousands of dollars more, so I went with a new top of the line model from the same brand (Hottop) drum roaster. I am generally impressed with ergonomic (human interface) design improvements. I just finished my second roast with the new roaster and I think I will keep it.
I slightly over roasted the first roast (too dark) because I didn't have a good understanding of the temperature display. The new roaster has two temperature displays one for the bean temperature and a second one for the hot air temperature. The old roaster only had one temperature display that was somewhere between those two.in addition to those new changes with steep learning curve. I started a new experiment. Popular wisdom from the coffee nerds (a lot worse than me), is that RO water is too pure to make great coffee. A commercial solution (Third Wave Water) offers a $1 gallon solution. A small packed of magic minerals; Magnesium sulfate, Calcium Citrate, Sodium Chloride (aka table salt).
My first experiment is somewhat corrupted by the too dark roasted beans but I think I perceive a subtle taste difference. My suspicion is that it is a PH thing, affecting the acidity fo the water that will obviously impact extraction and acidity of the brewed product.
Tomorrow I will report back on less dark roasted beans, but another variable confounding this experiment is that the new roaster came with an 8# sampler pack of different green coffee origins. Today I roasted some Brazil Mogiana Ponta da Serra. I routinely buy Brazilian coffee but don't recognize this particular one. I suspect the sampler is loaded up with good but slow moving or odd lots coffees. I just checked their website and they have zero Brazil green beans in stock. The ponta da sierra was premium priced when they had it. In fact I don't see any South American Green coffee which is unusual.
Mo lata start laughing.
JR
Ive a cheapo espresso maker from Lidl , its been fairly reliable . I find it makes the best cup after powering up for only a few minutes , leave it on too long and the coffee ends up with out any froth at the top and maybe with more bitter notes to the flavour. I usually add the milk to the glass before hand , then 30 seconds in the microwave , the milk is at a lower temp than the coffee so tends to stay towards the end of the glass , I do a 360 degree turn with the cup in my hand to get it mixing , visually its like a storm in a coffee cup , slightly stronger at the top then gradually more milky as you get down towards the end.
The hot milky tea here in Ireland is massively popular , I remember my dad telling me a story once about his days in the navy . The ship had run out of fresh milk , they tried serving the teas with UHT milk , the crew were really unhappy and made representations to the captain via the chef ,
In the end they refridgerated water and mixed in powdered milk , problem solved .
One time my dad was doing liason to a visiting US destroyer , we got taken out , a few miles off the coast and brought aboard . After the tour we were brought into the officers mess and served ice cold milk made from powder , we were invited to serve ourselves more from the outlet , as much as we wanted , we couldnt believe at first it was made from powder .
Id highly recommend trying the Irish 'Barrys' tea in loose leaf form , turns out they now have a US based outlet if anyone stateside would like to try it .
https://shop.barrystea.com/
The hot milky tea here in Ireland is massively popular , I remember my dad telling me a story once about his days in the navy . The ship had run out of fresh milk , they tried serving the teas with UHT milk , the crew were really unhappy and made representations to the captain via the chef ,
In the end they refridgerated water and mixed in powdered milk , problem solved .
One time my dad was doing liason to a visiting US destroyer , we got taken out , a few miles off the coast and brought aboard . After the tour we were brought into the officers mess and served ice cold milk made from powder , we were invited to serve ourselves more from the outlet , as much as we wanted , we couldnt believe at first it was made from powder .
Id highly recommend trying the Irish 'Barrys' tea in loose leaf form , turns out they now have a US based outlet if anyone stateside would like to try it .
https://shop.barrystea.com/
I don't put milk/sugar into tea/coffee. My unified theory on psychoactive beverages is that people add milk/sugar to conceal less than attractive flavor profiles so they can access the caffeine et al. I generally don't drink hot tea during summer months, and when I do make tea during cooler months I lean toward green (unfermented) teas like Japanese sencha, etc, and the occasional Chinese oolong. I am looking forward to experimenting with brewing tea at lower temperatures.
I suspect black teas with sharper flavor profiles counter the sweetness and smoothness of added milk/cream. Kind of like each makes the other more palatable.
Back decades ago when I was still drinking black tea, made from tea bags I used to drink Twining's english breakfast tea, I make no claims for it other than tastes better than Lipton's tea.
JR
I suspect black teas with sharper flavor profiles counter the sweetness and smoothness of added milk/cream. Kind of like each makes the other more palatable.
Back decades ago when I was still drinking black tea, made from tea bags I used to drink Twining's english breakfast tea, I make no claims for it other than tastes better than Lipton's tea.
JR
john12ax7
Well-known member
It's all a balancing act for one's particular taste bud preferences. Black coffee is generally unappealing to me. I don't like caffeine either. So my preference is decaf with creamer. I do like Italian espresso though.
I was at one point a two heaped spoons of sugar per cup man , it doesnt take long for the taste buds to adjust .now I use zero sugar in my hot drinks .
Ive found adding milk to coffee slows the release of caffeine .
I did pioneer an iced tea methodology in my local pub to avoid the usual concerned look on my drinking buddies faces if i wasnt on the beer along with them , cup of crappy tea bag tea made in the cup , then once brewed, poured over a pint glass full of ice with a slice of lemon , to the untrained eye looks like a pint of cider on ice.
Theres good reasoning behind boiling the water first , between the boiling and addition of tea virtually all (99.9%) bacteria etc are killed . Even if its a cold brew you want pre boiling and allowing the water to cool might be a good plan anyway.
There are times the caffeine rush of coffee doesnt suit my mood so I avoid it , on other ocassions its just the boost I want . For me usually , its tea in the morning and evening , coffee time is the middle of the day . If I want a rush of caffeine to the blood stream I'll drink it black , if i want a more mellow buzz I'll add milk or maybe cream if I have some handy .
Theres a kind of parching of the pallet you get with black tea without milk added , with milk added its a lot softer as the PH is balanced to some degree .
I remember lipton tea from when I used live on the European mainland ,absolute piss water.
We had a landlord who rented us the place we lived , my mom gave him a cup of the Barrys tea when he came down one time , he was so impressed with the quality/taste we ended up sending him away with a big smile and a box of Barrys under his oxter .
Ive found adding milk to coffee slows the release of caffeine .
I did pioneer an iced tea methodology in my local pub to avoid the usual concerned look on my drinking buddies faces if i wasnt on the beer along with them , cup of crappy tea bag tea made in the cup , then once brewed, poured over a pint glass full of ice with a slice of lemon , to the untrained eye looks like a pint of cider on ice.
Theres good reasoning behind boiling the water first , between the boiling and addition of tea virtually all (99.9%) bacteria etc are killed . Even if its a cold brew you want pre boiling and allowing the water to cool might be a good plan anyway.
There are times the caffeine rush of coffee doesnt suit my mood so I avoid it , on other ocassions its just the boost I want . For me usually , its tea in the morning and evening , coffee time is the middle of the day . If I want a rush of caffeine to the blood stream I'll drink it black , if i want a more mellow buzz I'll add milk or maybe cream if I have some handy .
Theres a kind of parching of the pallet you get with black tea without milk added , with milk added its a lot softer as the PH is balanced to some degree .
I remember lipton tea from when I used live on the European mainland ,absolute piss water.
We had a landlord who rented us the place we lived , my mom gave him a cup of the Barrys tea when he came down one time , he was so impressed with the quality/taste we ended up sending him away with a big smile and a box of Barrys under his oxter .
For another update, my fancy temp controlled kettle recommends 175 degrees F for tea....
I made a batch of green tea using the lower water temp and it tasted pretty good to me.
JR
I made a batch of green tea using the lower water temp and it tasted pretty good to me.
JR
A matcha tea house opened across the street from my studio a few months ago. I’m not a big tea drinker so I haven’t been yet. I don’t think I’ve ever had a properly made matcha. It looks complicated to make. I am curious and should make some time.
I have never tried matcha but drink several different green teas.
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It seems to me that pure RO water would be less corrosive but lately I have been treating my RO water with a mineral additive (Third Wave Water). I am not sure I buy all the marketing hype, but I can taste a difference for the better.
I suspect the typical coffee brew is acidic so perhaps the third wave minerals alter the PH to make the brew less acidic.
[edit RO water has PH of 5-7 so pretty neutral /edit]
JR
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It seems to me that pure RO water would be less corrosive but lately I have been treating my RO water with a mineral additive (Third Wave Water). I am not sure I buy all the marketing hype, but I can taste a difference for the better.
I suspect the typical coffee brew is acidic so perhaps the third wave minerals alter the PH to make the brew less acidic.
[edit RO water has PH of 5-7 so pretty neutral /edit]
JR
Last edited:
midwayfair
Well-known member
Just had a look and my boiler puts french press at 200 degrees.
My dad's the one who drinks coffee (I like it sometimes, but my wife really hates the smell), but I'm almost certain he goes with the 195 degrees you suggested.
I almost never make my tea at the "recommended" temperatures. The explanation I've heard is that high heat destroys flavor compounds, BUT I heard an alternate explanation for coffee relating to temperatures: Hotter things are harder to taste. There's some good temperature range where it's still hot enough to be aromatic and cool enough that you can really taste everything, including the bitter notes, and if hotter coffee has "less flavor" and especially less bitter flavor, it makes sense when I think about why my grandmother wanted her coffee just ripping hot all the time.
My dad's the one who drinks coffee (I like it sometimes, but my wife really hates the smell), but I'm almost certain he goes with the 195 degrees you suggested.
I almost never make my tea at the "recommended" temperatures. The explanation I've heard is that high heat destroys flavor compounds, BUT I heard an alternate explanation for coffee relating to temperatures: Hotter things are harder to taste. There's some good temperature range where it's still hot enough to be aromatic and cool enough that you can really taste everything, including the bitter notes, and if hotter coffee has "less flavor" and especially less bitter flavor, it makes sense when I think about why my grandmother wanted her coffee just ripping hot all the time.
Brew temperature for coffee and tea affects amount of extraction... over extraction can pull some less desirable flavor components.
As I have shared before, life is too short to drink inferior beverages.
JR
As I have shared before, life is too short to drink inferior beverages.
JR
Real RO water eats through steel (even inox) in a matter of weeks. Months if the tubes are extra thick walled. That's why all industrial/medical RO systems are built with extra thick walled plastic pipes. The extra thickness is needed because of the very high pressure in those systems.
It's ph is absolutely neutral. And the taste is awful. It's corrosive because that's what pure water is. It dissolves most materials.
The definition for RO water in that context is given by it's conductivity, expressed in Siemens per centimeter. IIRC, the system shuts down when the conductivity is over 1 micro Siemens/cm. When running, it should be far, far less than 1 μS/cm. It doesn't last long in that state. Just a bit of air will provide some CO2 and form "carbonic acid" ions. Enough to raise the conductivity exponentially.
With RO home appliances you don't need to worry. There's enough mineral content to pass through the socks to have fairly neutral tasting water. But some people like the taste of calcium or other minerals.
I don't know why water pureness is measured in Siemens and not Ohms, as they are the inverse of one another, but that's the way it is in the water treatment business. I have seen Ohms displays in very, very old sewage treatment equipment, but today it's all in μS/cm.
I am always willing to learn, at least about water. I always ASSumed that pure water would be relatively benign. The classic chemistry class demonstration was about dissolving metals with strong acids and the like. I had to look up what inox is (stainless steel). I hope your estimate that RO water would eat through that quickly, does not translate to my under sink rig. My recent UV unit upgrade to deal with water leaks caused by plastic parts degraded by UV light, involved a new UV unit with a stainless steel housing (uh oh). In hindsight my desire to use a metal housing so I could replace the plastic fittings with brass seems wrong headed.
I have been using RO water for cooking/drinking for decades now. My tap water had so much disinfectant added that it killed my beer yeast. I never had a problem with the taste of RO but my tap water could be variable (small, poor town problem). I do perceive a flavor improvement to my brewed coffee since adding the small dose of minerals (calcium and salts?).
I'll see how long the stainless steel housing lasts. It is designed for RO filter use so hopefully the chromium layer is adequate.
I don't strive for hyper pure water, but routinely see my sediment filters loaded up. As long as my yeast stays happy, I am happy. My coffee and tea are tasting better than ever.
Thank you I learned something this morning, always a good thing.
JR
If the disinfectant in your tap water is chlorine based, all you need to do is aerate for about 24 hours. That 'll remove most of the chlorine.
I suspect it might be something else if it kills beer yeast though. Chlorine is anti-bacterial and yeast is a fungus. If it kills your yeast, chlorine levels would need to be >20 mg/l. In general, drinking water should be <3 mg/l. That's what most people would call pool water, judged by the smell.
In the EU, it's mostly chlorine at a max. level of about 0,8 mg/l. Hardly any anti-fungal working at all. IIRC, ClO2 is much more popular in the USA.
In Belgium, actual chlorine levels are below 0,5 mg/l, unless the water company is flushing pipes. In that case, the industry and the consumers are warned. With relatively short lines and high consumption bacterial pollution isn't a big problem anyways.
Some anti-fungal stuff used by agriculture shows up in drinking water. Azoles, but others too. Very hard to remove. Often used excessively, as they're not considered poison...
I suspect it might be something else if it kills beer yeast though. Chlorine is anti-bacterial and yeast is a fungus. If it kills your yeast, chlorine levels would need to be >20 mg/l. In general, drinking water should be <3 mg/l. That's what most people would call pool water, judged by the smell.
In the EU, it's mostly chlorine at a max. level of about 0,8 mg/l. Hardly any anti-fungal working at all. IIRC, ClO2 is much more popular in the USA.
In Belgium, actual chlorine levels are below 0,5 mg/l, unless the water company is flushing pipes. In that case, the industry and the consumers are warned. With relatively short lines and high consumption bacterial pollution isn't a big problem anyways.
Some anti-fungal stuff used by agriculture shows up in drinking water. Azoles, but others too. Very hard to remove. Often used excessively, as they're not considered poison...
my small town water service is far from as precise as in a EU country. From time to time I will even smell the chlorine (hydrocloric acid?) in the water, like if a possum fell into the town's water tank. Almost amusing to get boil water notices in the mail days after the fact.... Our very old buried pipes are routinely springing leaks, sometimes precipitated by Bubba's backhoe.... I don't drink the tap water but notice when the toilet flush water is brownish.
Around here letting my water air out for 24 hours is not a recipe for making cleaner water.
The RO filter, with post charcoal and UV works spectacularly... before I added the UV stage maybe 10 years ago I got a couple cases of anaerobic infestation in the clean water output side of the RO. Not dangerous but smelly.
There is lots of mold (fungus) in the air around here so I think I will stick with my current strategy.
JR
PS: I did learn something about very pure water sucking ions out of metal.
