I want to make a reliable clone of a C800G microphone

[Whoops]

Oh no, I just recently started getting into DIY. After I make a clone (...)

If you just started into DIY then there's no way you will make a C800G clone,
that's not going to happen. At least a good clone

I was going to say that you "choose the wrong project for a beginner", but I think it's more that you got obsessed by the wrong project for your level of experience and skills

 

[vmanj]

The point would be to find as transparent as possible replacement, it should take high levels without any impairment on the sound. The ratio is less important. Important aspect is that measurement is done at 50hz!

If you order such a transformer from a specialist, but in a toroidal design, then in addition to the Ratio and Inductance, you must also strictly observe the DCR parameter?

 

[kingkorg]

If you order such a transformer from a specialist, but in a toroidal design, then in addition to the Ratio and Inductance, you must also strictly observe the DCR parameter?

I don't think it would be that critical, but i'd suggest consulting someone more knowledgeable, like @Moby

 

[vmanj]

Got you, thank you.

 

[RuudNL]

My advice: forget about it!
It wil never be a C800g and probably not sound like a C800g...

 

[vmanj]

My advice: forget about it!
It wil never be a C800g and probably not sound like a C800g...

Of course it won’t, I think this is clear to everyone.

Did I say that a homemade microphone can sound like the original?
It's just a hobby, and I didn't ask for advice on whether I should do it or not.

My question was completely different, perhaps you didn’t read it carefully..
But I will be glad if you answer it.

 

[RuudNL]

@vmanj: it was not a reaction to one of your posts, but an advice in general concerning the topic title:
"I want to make a reliable clone of a C800G microphone"...

 

[k brown]

I don't know if was the OP's intention or not, but 'reliable clone' means something very different from 'sonic clone'.

 

[Whoops]

I don't know if was the OP's intention or not, but 'reliable clone' means something very different from 'sonic clone'.

OP's intention was clear in his first post, first sentence, he wrote:

"how I could create an exact clone of a Sony microphone."

An "Exact Clone" needs to be a "Sonic Clone"

 

[kingkorg]

As far as i can see the biggest issue with cloning c800g is it's scarcity. Even people who have them wouldn't be comfortable subjecting them to dissection. Even if so, all the parameters including capsule would have to be carefully measured, so you would probably have to have a team of experts on all the aspects. Like Moby to examine the transformer, another one for the capsule, third one for the Peltier element, someone to clone the mechanics...

Sticking a random k87 in a body using same circuit with original tube will not get you c800 sound, with or without Peltier element.

The same issue with u47. Nothing magical about that mic either, but only recently @tomas.borgstrom did the first test i am aware of checking vf14 microphonics. Yet 47 "clones" are available everywhere.

There are so many important microscopic aspects that impact the performance. So i am on the same page with @RuudNL . Currently, there is simply not much known about the key aspects of c800g in order to even try making exact replica.

 

[vmanj]

In general, I don’t take “clones” a little seriously, for me it’s just entertainment - a hobby.
I just didn’t want to create a new topic for my question and decided to ask it here.

 

[Migs 31]

Currently, there is simply not much known about the key aspects of c800g in order to even try making exact replica.

Exact replica, no way. I don't think so.
Advanced Audio Ca. claim to have one close enough (with different valve & no Peltier element).
https://advancedaudio-europe.com/webshop/tube_mics/cm800t/I remember that not everybody here likes that clear (bright) sound, specially on vocals.

Funny enough, last week I was messing around with various perf board mic prototypes.
One of them was a C800g inspired circuit in an SP-B1 capsule/body.
Of course no Peltier element and no super Capacitor in Farrads, no Sony capsule either.
And the little ******* was still sounding good and balanced tone wise...
Capsule direct to grid. Telefunken 6au6/EF94 - good recipe!

M

 

[kingkorg]

Advanced Audio Ca. claim to have one close enough (with different valve & no Peltier element).

Yet it says on their site it uses 32mm capsule. By the laws of physics, this mic can't perform even close to c800. Could it be a great mic? Sure, but by all means this is false advertising. Not same tube, not same body, not same transformer, capsule, and i bet not the same plate voltage! Well what does this mic have in common with c800? Ages of microphone plague.

If this were a DIYer doing his/her best to make a decent mic, i'd give them a pass, but this is a real company with a business model based on plagiarising, relying on other company's heritage and marketing, and selling 200$ worth of parts at best, feeding of struggling musician's lack of confidence.

 

[rock soderstrom]

Not same tube, not same body, not same transformer, capsule, and i bet not the same plate voltage!

Sounds like an exact clone

 

[kingkorg]

Just to be clear, I think Dave from AA is a great guy, very helpful, and very transparent about most of the mods and circuits he's been using. But the business model is just rotten.

 

[Migs 31]

Sounds like an exact clone

That's what I thought!
But I can't afford the 10-15K of the real one.
So I will stick to MY DIY versions and have good fun at low cost.

M

 

[kingkorg]

The only thing i can go by are the responses i've taken and ATK measurements which are pretty good.

Townsend Labs Sphere's C800 model and original C800 have exact same responses and sound exactly the same to me in ATK site. Extrapolating this further, and combining with my own measurements i came to conclusion the capsule found in Behringer B2 Pro (early model with detachable head) has closest response to C800 capsule. As it's nothing like Neumann's k67/87 it even led me to wonder if this capsule could be based on Sony's.

B2 is also quite popular for similar sources, shine on acc guitars, and is often used by people not afraid of cheap mics. Lots of RnB, Rap enthusiasts seem to like what B2 does, and it makes sense.

 

[Moby]

TBH, for the price of the Stam audio SA800 I will never start DIY clone of the C800G. I don't say it's the 100% exact clone but most of the details are solved there.

 

[Migs 31]

TBH, for the price of the Stam audio SA800 I will never start DIY clone of the C800G. I don't say it's the 100% exact clone but most of the details are solved there.

Uhm ok,
They have the 6au6, Peltier element, American made Capsule, Lundahl transfo.
Hand Made in Chile!?! WTF ?
I wonder if they have the small "dome" thing sitting under the capsule?
$2,390.00 !!! in stock. Wow, ok!

M

 

[nielsk]

The special tube Sony used is an essential part of the C800g sound. I have tried many different 6AU6A tubes in place and nothing sounds even close on the top end.
If you can get one of the Sony tubes (part # 1-525-255-11) it may be wort a try in one of the low cost "alternatives" if it fits (it is a good bit longer than a standard 6AU6A)