John Hardy M-1 with Tubes

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delnick

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
6
I really like John Hardy's M-1 preamps and after reading about his non-use of coupling capacitors I thought this might be one of the reasons why. I would like to design a tube mic pre also without coupling capacitors based on his design. Is this something that has been done or that would be possible?

Thanks
 
a two stage mic pre will have a coupling cap and possibly an output cap, so that's only two caps.
innerstage transfirmers can elininate the V1-V2 cap, and a push pull output stage could get rid of the parafeed cap.
sounds like a fun project to explore.

HS-29 innerstage would be awesome.
ithanks for the idea. I think I am going to throw something together.
 
Anytime CJ. How about the way John does it with the DC servo circuitry instead of another transformer? Any ideas of benefits of either system? I guess the interstage transformer might add a little more to the cost and color to the signal???
 
> a tube mic pre also without coupling capacitors

Just use interstage transformers. Everybody did it.... back in 1922.

Of course John Hardy would disavow any similarity between that topology and his.

And you can argue that the power caps are still in the signal path, though in a different way. With push-pull refinement, even this could be nulled.

> I really like John Hardy's M-1 preamps .... non-use of coupling capacitors I thought this might be one of the reasons why.

It isn't just a cap-count. I've build cap-less amps that sound horrible. JH understands a lot about audio, and caresses many details.
 
Agreed. That's why I was hoping to understand his design philosophy, but instead of just copying it, use tubes and readjust the circuit which would hopefully lend to a better understanding of it. Not to mention the fact that I would like to build a tube mic pre anyway... Maybe by copying him I will learn...
 
I believe the sound of M-1, among other things, comes from the great discrete opamp he uses (Jensen 990) and input transformer, more than the lack of caps.

Somewhere here in the forum I read that the caps used on the servo are in the audio path anyway...

A tube capless micpre.... uhmm.... :green:
I do love the M-1 as well, a masterpiece :thumb:

cheers,
Fabio
 
> copying it, use tubes and readjust the circuit

"readjust"?

I don't have all JH's products memorized, but I suspect you speak of either a 990 with frills or some similar opamp-ish affair made with solid-state.

Here's the deal. There are no P-type vacuum tubes. The output pin of a tube is "always"(*) more positive than its input. You can't require that both input and output be near ground without some major compromise.

Fer eggample: input grid near ground, previous plate near +100V. You can rig-up a -300V supply and use a "voltage divider" to deliver about 3/4 of the signal voltage to the grid at (we hope) about the right DC voltage. However, the resistor divider gives terrible power transfer. While we often pretend a tube needs no drive power, in fact the grid capacitance limits the bandwidth so a resistor divider gives a serious loss of HF response. There is a strong temptation to stick a little cap on the top resistor. An alternative is to use a neon bulb (or Zener) to give better transfer, but noise may be a problem. Any such scheme hurts gain.

When you turn to solid-state: now P-channel devices are possible and common. You start near DC ground, say with N-type. Its output is near the V+ rail, so we put in a P-type device to give gain and get an output more DC-negative than its input.

Direct-coupling with near-zero-DC input and output is possible, sometimes easy, when you have two polarities of active device. It is mighty darn difficult when you only have one polarity. The compromises needed to make it "work" tend to overwhelm the design.

I'm all in favor of you studying it. But I think any good sound you hear in the M-1 is due to JH and probably Deane Jensen and others tweaking similar designs for several decades, not anything as "obvious" as omitting caps.

(*) OK, there are exceptions to prove the rule. A Pentode can be screen-driven, and can have the plate output less-positive than the screen input. Voltage gain is low and current gain is very low: it is a crummy amplifier. It is sometimes used in DIY output stages. The low gain tends to be linear, but I think novelty is the main attraction.

It is also possible to work a tube positive grid with a low plate voltage, lower than grid voltage. But you quickly reach a point that both voltage and current gains become losses.

You can stick batteries in series with the output to level-shift. Current drain may be quite low, so life could be long, but obviously a headache. And batteries tend to get noisy with age, and the fix is.... a capacitor.
 
[quote author="PRR"]
Just use interstage transformers. Everybody did it.... back in 1922.
[/quote]
... With triodes.
It is intetresting to use interstage transformers with triodes,
it can boost gain by 3
Interstage transformers are damped by triode plate resistances itself.
Generally there is also topology with plate choke, cap and interstage transformer and this topology have better bandwidth, but need capacitor and is complicated, but in 1920-30 tube gain was cost and interstage
transformer was cost reducing.
But with development of pentode, pentode stage has enough gain and
pentode plate resistance was not enough to damp interstage transformer.
Capacitor-coupled amps was the main trend.
Yes, there is posibility to use plate-load resistor - capacitor - transformer with pentode where plate load resistor damps transformer (and with coupling capacitor you have second - order highpass at low end ) This connection is somewhat complicated (mainly for design), but have the best
"gain - bandwidth product" from all multistage tube amps.
If you want amplifier with modern tubes and without global negative feedback, I recommend it.

Note: It is veryvery dificult to solve global negative feedback network for transformer - you must measure phase/frequency characteristic of constructed amp in open-loop to solve it.

xvlk
 
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