Kavana(ugh)

[Matador]

Scary time for men indeed.  Perhaps men now feel as women have felt since the beginning of time.

 

[desol]

It's not a scary time if you're a man that was raised to understand that you can't impose yourself on a women.

I think it's expressed as "no means no".

 

[DaveP]

I fully agree with all of your thoughts about women, I believe in full and total equality, so I guess that makes me a feminist.

My band played at US bases in the UK in the late 60's, so I saw at first hand what too much beer and testosterone  leads to.

I certainly despise any man who bullies or tries to exploit women  (or men) for their own ends.  If he has done what he is accused of, then he is certainly not fit for the Supreme Court.

Hopefully the FBI will get to the truth of the matter.  Trump's avoidance of alcohol has saved him from a similar fate I guess, on that point he looks like he is preparing the ground to cut ties.

DaveP

 

[desol]

I fully agree with all of your thoughts about women, I believe in full and total equality, so I guess that makes me a feminist.

My band played at US bases in the UK in the late 60's, so I saw at first hand what too much beer and testosterone  leads to.

I certainly despise any man who bullies or tries to exploit women  (or men) for their own ends.  If he has done what he is accused of, then he is certainly not fit for the Supreme Court.

Hopefully the FBI will get to the truth of the matter.  Trump's avoidance of alcohol has saved him from a similar fate I guess, on that point he looks like he is preparing the ground to cut ties.

DaveP

Well, I couldn't classify myself as a feminist. I don't even know what that word means to tell you the truth. I was brought up as chivalrous I guess...holding doors open, etc, respectful...but also not being a doormat...and certainly not forcing myself on women, etc. They're not as strong as us? Only a real a-hole would attempt something such as that.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Our President;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWv1ipoi-c8

For those who don't want to watch the video (I understand, I rarely click), he is mocking Christine Blasey Ford's testimony.

To every victim of sexual abuse everywhere, including close members of my family, this says "shut up, you will be mocked, you are not valued".

 

[desol]

I keep telling people...the guy is not a 'President'.

He's a lying, cheating, racketeering, narcissistic mob crook...is this not so?

 

[Jarno]

I think the behaviour of Kavanaugh during the hearing is telling of his true character. Such an unpleasant piece of sh*t.
He could also say, "hey, we are young, and yes, there have been occasions of having too much beer. I hope I treated everyone with respect and if not I deeply apologise for my behaviour" but first there is his non-answering of questions in the first hearing, and then there is his more recent partisan rant. Constant dodging of questions, why, why for god's sake, does he not have an idea how this looks, does he not care?
If the Federalist Society has a list of 25, by all means GOP, choose somebody else, but no, let's dig trenches and hunker down.
Also, you CAN feel this is at least partly a Democrat attack, which is also a very low blow. It can only be hoped for the US' sake, that that complete Washington swamp keels over and is replaced by younger people who have some moral standard.

 

[DaveP]

A well balanced comment,

+1

DaveP

 

[desol]

I think the behaviour of Kavanaugh during the hearing is telling of his true character. Such an unpleasant piece of sh*t.
He could also say, "hey, we are young, and yes, there have been occasions of having too much beer. I hope I treated everyone with respect and if not I deeply apologise for my behaviour" but first there is his non-answering of questions in the first hearing, and then there is his more recent partisan rant. Constant dodging of questions, why, why for god's sake, does he not have an idea how this looks, does he not care?
If the Federalist Society has a list of 25, by all means GOP, choose somebody else, but no, let's dig trenches and hunker down.
Also, you CAN feel this is at least partly a Democrat attack, which is also a very low blow. It can only be hoped for the US' sake, that that complete Washington swamp keels over and is replaced by younger people who have some moral standard.

That's the thing, trump doesn't want to choose anyone else is my thought? I didn't watch any of it(cause I already know 'their' nature and that he's guilty - they all are) but if there's any dodging of questions, well that just carries on in line with the character of the 'head chief'. I watched a program where a guy detailed rump's upbringing and apparently he was schooled in denying/lying by some other lowlife type character(a buddy of his dad's, or something). It's a tactic he's used ever since, I'm sure his dad mastered it as well: Deny and lie enough, and eventually the suckers will believe it.

 

[dmp]

Our President;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWv1ipoi-c8

For those who don't want to watch the video (I understand, I rarely click), he is mocking Christine Blasey Ford's testimony.

To every victim of sexual abuse everywhere, including close members of my family, this says "shut up, you will be mocked, you are not valued".

And at the end he calls the people who disagree with him 'really evil'
Any talk about what Trump has or has not accomplished - the most significant effect in my mind is he has lowered and made much worse the level of discourse & politics (and made 'acceptable' what was not acceptable before) in the USA and probably the world. I'm not sure it can get better - more likely it will get much worse first.

 

[hodad]

It's worth noting that the FBI has spoken to 4 people in its current probe of Kavanaugh.  It has not even spoken to Kavanaugh or Blasey Ford. 
At this point, I would assume that the GOP chose who could and could not be talked to.  My guess is that not having them talk to Kavanaugh is their way of making sure he doesn't perjure himself to the FBI, which is a crime that actually gets prosecuted--unlike lying to the Senate.

Kavanaugh does not look like a good guy in all this.  I think if there were a sense that he had been a screwup as a young man but had grown and changed as he saw the error of his ways, I'd look more kindly on him.  I don't see any contrition there, and I don't see evidence in his work as a judge that he learned a single thing. 

 

[desol]

Exactly, a supreme court judge that's unaccountable. Perfect pick!

Another genius trump brainwave. Let's see what he tweets next.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I wasn't aware that FBI shared progress reports about ongoing investigations.  :

I would like to think that the FBI investigates "all" the funny business surrounding this extraordinary political event, but they probably won't (lucky for several swamp dwellers).

I am not smart enough to predict the outcome, but this is being spun pretty hard in advance. The FBI report will be shared with the 20 odd senators on the committee, so from that gaggle of leakers surely one or more will share it with the world.

JR 

PS: I have a humorous (IMO) personal anecdote but I won't share it now while emotions are so raw, since it won't seem humorous to many here.

 

[desol]

PS: I have a humorous (IMO) personal anecdote but I won't share it now while emotions are so raw, since it won't seem humorous to many here.

If it in any way defends the basic GOP moral standpoint, it probably isn't worth mentioning anyway. Just saying...

 

[hodad]

I wasn't aware that FBI shared progress reports about ongoing investigations.  :

From the Atlantic:

" [Senator] Coons told the Post that he “came away from” his conversation with McGahn realizing that agents would not be expanding their investigation to include witnesses they learn about in the course of their initial interviews who might be able to corroborate specific claims. A lawyer for Debbie Ramirez, John Clune, echoed that concern on Tuesday, writing in a series of tweets that “we are not aware of the FBI affirmatively reaching out to any” of the more than 20 witnesses Ramirez identified in her interview who may have corroborating information. "​

Couple that with Ford and Kavanaugh not even being interviewed, & it would appear to be an extremely limited investigation. 

The scope is not set by the FBI, but by whichever Republicans are giving orders to the FBI. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

From the Atlantic:

" [Senator] Coons told the Post that he “came away from” his conversation with McGahn realizing that agents would not be expanding their investigation to include witnesses they learn about in the course of their initial interviews who might be able to corroborate specific claims. A lawyer for Debbie Ramirez, John Clune, echoed that concern on Tuesday, writing in a series of tweets that “we are not aware of the FBI affirmatively reaching out to any” of the more than 20 witnesses Ramirez identified in her interview who may have corroborating information. "​

Couple that with Ford and Kavanaugh not even being interviewed, & it would appear to be an extremely limited investigation. 

The scope is not set by the FBI, but by whichever Republicans are giving orders to the FBI.

I am familiar with both partisan positions.

It's a background check not a criminal investigation, but it has already been expanded somewhat to satisfy a few senators sitting on the fence about how to vote (mostly looking for cover wrt the midterm coming up). 

Take the victory lap for delaying it past Oct 1, the new SCOTUS session has already started.

I would love a rigorous investigation of everybody involved (definitely looks like some funny business occured), but that is unlikely to happen in the swamp.

I won't list the inflammatory conflicting evidence going around these days (like I said lets keep it civil). It is hard to judge veracity of news reports on the wild wide web, but this does not appear as open and shut as a SNL comedy skit.

Good luck to us all.... Both sides will probably be disappointed no matter the outcome.

JR

PS: A 4-4 split court is not the worst thing that could happen. Tied decisions revert back down to the lower courts.

 

[hodad]

I am familiar with both partisan positions.

Whether or not the scope of the probe has been limited to 4 people is not a position, it is simply what appears to be the case. 

That the FBI is being directed in these matters by Republicans is not a position.  It is how this was set up in the first place. 

As there is an abundance of potential witnesses to the Ramirez incident who have not been interviewed, and as Ford and Kavanaugh have not been interviewed, it would be hard to justify saying that this probe is not severely limited in its scope. 

That's not partisan, any more than saying that it's raining is partisan. 

 

[DaveP]

Maybe they already know their decision and are paying lip-service to procedure?  Either way?

Don't you think there is a sense of the ridiculous in having the FBI investigating teenage behaviour?

If it went on too long and turned into Barfgate it might start to look absurd in the eyes of the world, I think that's why they limited it to a week.

DaveP

 

[hodad]

Maybe they already know their decision and are paying lip-service to procedure?  Either way?

Don't you think there is a sense of the ridiculous in having the FBI investigating teenage behaviour?

If it went on too long and turned into Barfgate it might start to look absurd in the eyes of the world, I think that's why they limited it to a week.

DaveP

Which "they"?  The FBI investigates.  They try to determine the truth of things as best they can.  The deciding is done by the Senate.  I would say there are certain senators (Grassley, Hatch) who already know how they wish to decide, and they'd rather not see an investigation at all.  Limiting the investigation to interviews with 5 people seems to be an effort to render it inconclusive.  That is a political (GOP) decision, not a law-enforcement decision. 

Investigating this sort of thing (should it come up) falls to the FBI.  That's just how it works.  Investigating sexual assault charges against a potential Supreme Court Justice, whenever these acts occurred, does not seem trivial. 

A week, according to former FBI Director James Comey, should be ample time to conduct a thorough investigation into this.  Regardless of what one might think of Comey, I think he knows what the FBI is capable of doing.  Having the scope of the investigation limited by politicians is the only major stumbling block for doing a truly thorough investigation.
 

 

[JohnRoberts]

Maybe they already know their decision and are paying lip-service to procedure?  Either way?

In case this isn't obvious it's about the votes...  If the committee had the votes already there probably wouldn't be a redundant background check.  A handful of senators were feeling the heat, likely in the upcoming mid term vote, so the new FBI background check should give them political cover and satisfy voters.

The hard NO votes against Kavanaugh will never change, so this is only about the yes/maybe votes, and soft no's.  When the outcome looks certain a number of votes will flip to be on the right side of history (either way).

Don't you think there is a sense of the ridiculous in having the FBI investigating teenage behaviour?

duh... the state of team politics to resist seems historic from my experience paying attention to this stuff... I keep waiting for them to calm down as this will likely reflect bad on them in retrospect, but for right now both parties are raising campaign money hand over fist (more money raised for 2018 than for 2016 vote), so they are unlikely to stop what they are doing while the money keeps flowing in this strong.

If it went on too long and turned into Barfgate it might start to look absurd in the eyes of the world, I think that's why they limited it to a week.

DaveP

Doesn't it already look absurd? I suspect the international press is as unfriendly to this administration as the domestic press.

President Trump keeps stirring the pot with his intemperate tweets.

This too will pass, unless the FBI comes up with a smoking gun (extremely unlikely).

It is the nature of politics to piggyback on modern cultural trends. The #metoo movement is white hot right now so I suspect President Trump's next SCOTUS appointment will be a female judge (there is one on his list who should be hard to challenge this way).  The BLM movement seems to be losing steam, and shooting deaths are down in Chicago since they hired more police (maybe the police were not the problem, just not enough of them).

JR